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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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Degree scandals highlight holes in hiring process
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Earlier this week,...
Lee, who served as the head of department at KSC from 2002, said he graduated from the business administration department at the University of Suwon. He also said he was admitted to the fine arts college at Seoul National University in 1976 but that he had to give it up because of financial problems.
That wasn't the end of his lies. In his book published in 2003, it says that he received a degree in fine arts at the New Bridge University in California by attending the school from 1992 to 1996. However, it was found that a business administration department did not exist at the University of Suwon, Lee's name did not appear in any SNU documents and the NBU was a school that was established in 1995.
In an e-mail, Lee, who is currently on a business trip in Italy, did not deny any of the suspicions held against him and agreed to step down from his post at the university. |
Degree scandals highlight holes in hiring process
By Cho Ji-hyun, The Korea Herald (August 10, 2007)
https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/08/10/200708100003.asp |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| The Korean education system is embarrasing, to say the least. Thank god I am able say I have a solid education background from the UK. I hope the education system in Korea gets updated fast. It is very outdated and relies heavily upon reputation rather than competancy. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Happens in a lot of countries.
Fraudulent degrees are as common as fake LV handbags and wallets in Asia. |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder what jail time they will get....oh right...they will get none. The evil English teacher got 6 months in jail but the most famous professors who lie get nothing. Welcome to Korea, land of the racist. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| The evil English teacher got 6 months in jail but the most famous professors who lie get nothing. Welcome to Korea, land of the racist. |
Oh get off it bellum....what? You are surprised and shocked richer and more famous people get off while less influential people get tossed in the can? Come on now.....its not racism...its classism and its alive and well worldwide my friend.
You see OJ or Kobe Bryant in jail now? Yes these are extreme examples but they illustrate the point...had OJ been Frank the black gardener with the same case (killing his ex wife) he would be rotting in jail now....
As for the professors lets see what happens...if they get off scott free I sure will not be shocked or lose sleep over it.....its just the sad reality we live in.
Now RR...do you put the same energy into finding any and all links that put Korea and Koreans in a bad light into finding articles about say Westerners here who get busted on fake credentials? Do you do the same holy work to find articles about people in say the US who get busted on fake credentials?
That would be 'Real' Reality instead of the warped version you toss in here on a regular version. |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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I would hardly call these professors 'famous'. Maybe in their own clique, but otherwise? They can hardly be compared to MJ or OJ.
Homer, if you're so concerned about Real Reality's bias, why don't you start a similar 'news service' to balance out what he says? Why doesn't anyone? |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Her degrees from Ewha and the Pacific Western diploma mill are fake, but her Sungkyunkwan doctorate apparently is not. She was good enough to pass all of the requirements as well as dissertation for that doctorate. BA + MA = Fake; Ph.D = Real. What a quandary. Will it still count? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
| I wonder what jail time they will get....oh right...they will get none. The evil English teacher got 6 months in jail but the most famous professors who lie get nothing. Welcome to Korea, land of the racist. |
As has been pointed out, defrauding immigration to gain illegal entry is generally considered in every single nation on the face of the earth a far more serious crime than fraud against a private company. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I would hardly call these professors 'famous'. Maybe in their own clique, but otherwise? They can hardly be compared to MJ or OJ.
Homer, if you're so concerned about Real Reality's bias, why don't you start a similar 'news service' to balance out what he says? Why doesn't anyone? |
a) I did not say the professors compared to OJ (note the use of the term extreme and the fact I said it illustrates the point).
The professors are not 'famous' but they sure have more means than your avg hakwon teacher and know the system better, hence have more connections. Also, if they are Korean citizens, they commited document fraud...opposed to the foreign teacher who violated the immigration act...hence the difference.
b) Because I or no one has the time to devote to such an obsession like RR has....he does not need to be balanced out (this is not Star Wars  )....he will continue on with his quest whatever people may say...its his way. But, I do wonder if he does put the same energy into rooting out foreign teachers on fake papers and breaking laws as he does trying to find any article about negative events in Korea....just curious |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| merkurix wrote: |
| Her degrees from Ewha and the Pacific Western diploma mill are fake, but her Sungkyunkwan doctorate apparently is not. She was good enough to pass all of the requirements as well as dissertation for that doctorate. BA + MA = Fake; Ph.D = Real. What a quandary. Will it still count? |
Integrity of university professors
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During my doctoral course in England from 1992 to 1996, I witnessed an extraordinary academic process that would have been virtually unthinkable from a Korean professor's point of view. A diligent, hard-working postgraduate student from Greece, who had studied toward a Ph.D. degree for seven years, had arranged to have the oral examination for his thesis from his internal and external examiners. Unfortunately, the oral examiners decided that he could not be awarded the degree, due to the lack of a clear rationale for the approach adopted in the thesis and the subsequent need for major revision.
Since my return to Korea, I have been involved in various academic processes, including the examination of both master's and doctoral theses. To my knowledge, there has never been a single case in Korea where a Ph.D. candidate has failed to obtain his or her degree. Speaking as a Korean professor, however, I acknowledge that not all theses submitted are necessarily outstanding.
I think that the reason for this is a sentiment widespread in Korean society. In making an important decision for the award of a degree, we often ask ourselves, "How can you dare to fail a candidate?" This deep-rooted custom is derived from a combination of sentiment and manners and has tarnished university competitiveness as well as producing incompetent scholars and scientists. |
Integrity of university professors by Chung Yeon-ho, Korea Herald (July 1, 2004)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2004/07/01/200407010011.asp
Ghostwriters investigated: Firms selling graduate projects face charges.
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According to the prosecution's investigation, most of the fake theses passed examinations. The universities that administered those examinations reportedly included top universities in Seoul. "The customers gave minimal information to the ghostwriters, such as a title and table of contents, and the writers researched and found references," said prosecutor Park Seong-hoon.
A professor who was part of an examination committee that accepted several ghostwritten theses said, "The quality of the theses was poor, but I didn't want to disqualify them. I never knew they were written by others." |
Ghostwriters investigated: Firms selling graduate projects face charges. by Kang Joo-an, JoongAng Daily (March 17, 2003)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=1949410
Ghostwriters Enjoy Boom
By Kang Shin-who, Korea Times (September 28, 2006)
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/news_view.asp?newsIdx=2981632
Plagiarism Rampant on Campus
By Park Chung-a, Korea Times (March 26, 2007)
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/news_view.asp?newsIdx=3103915
[LETTERS to the editor] Plagiarism pervasive in school system
by Faith Fishley, JoongAng Daily (April 17, 2006)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2711827 |
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wisernow
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: The main reason for the Canadian teacher going to prison was |
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The main reason for the Canadian teacher going to prison was because he broke the immigraton law by using a fake degree to obtain the E2 visa while the Korean teachers who also used fake degrees to get their teaching jobs did not get jail sentences because they did not brake any immigration laws.
The original Korea Herald news report on this incident states that using fake degrees to obtain a teaching position in Korea can result in jail time also, but very few Koreans ever go to jail for this type of offense. Kind of like in the USA when you break a federal law and you can really be punished for just lying on the application (Federal Job) but you don't really get punished for something that may be more serious if it involves just the local state law.
I guess you could call it racism if you really want to but that was the main reason why the Canadian teacher got 6 months. You may want to look up the original news report before using the race card.
In my opinion both the Korean teachers and the Canadian guy deserves jail time as they broke laws when they lied about their credentials. |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| merkurix wrote: |
| Her degrees from Ewha and the Pacific Western diploma mill are fake, but her Sungkyunkwan doctorate apparently is not. She was good enough to pass all of the requirements as well as dissertation for that doctorate. BA + MA = Fake; Ph.D = Real. What a quandary. Will it still count? |
No. Entry to the PhD level was gained under false pretenses. As she didn't have a right to be there, the degree gained is invalid.
| Real Reality wrote: |
Integrity of university professors
| Quote: |
During my doctoral course in England from 1992 to 1996, I witnessed an extraordinary academic process that would have been virtually unthinkable from a Korean professor's point of view. A diligent, hard-working postgraduate student from Greece, who had studied toward a Ph.D. degree for seven years, had arranged to have the oral examination for his thesis from his internal and external examiners. Unfortunately, the oral examiners decided that he could not be awarded the degree, due to the lack of a clear rationale for the approach adopted in the thesis and the subsequent need for major revision.
Since my return to Korea, I have been involved in various academic processes, including the examination of both master's and doctoral theses. To my knowledge, there has never been a single case in Korea where a Ph.D. candidate has failed to obtain his or her degree. Speaking as a Korean professor, however, I acknowledge that not all theses submitted are necessarily outstanding.
I think that the reason for this is a sentiment widespread in Korean society. In making an important decision for the award of a degree, we often ask ourselves, "How can you dare to fail a candidate?" This deep-rooted custom is derived from a combination of sentiment and manners and has tarnished university competitiveness as well as producing incompetent scholars and scientists. |
Integrity of university professors by Chung Yeon-ho, Korea Herald (July 1, 2004)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2004/07/01/200407010011.asp |
It would pretty surprising on an American campus as well. The system is built so that at the final defense stage people should succeed. If a PhD student at an American university walks into their defense without knowing in advance that they will succeed, either their supervisor has been derelict or they have managed to antagonize their supervisor as well as other readers. In the American system, students unlikely to succeed are weeded out much earlier, primarily at qualifying exams (which grant candidacy to a PhD after two years of study). That's where people were removed at my department (in one of the top 40 unis in the world, so they say). If you pass quals, the department is making a commitment to you, saying that you are good enough and that they will work to help you succeed. It looks bad for departments to have a high percentage of people admitted to candidacy fail. It suggests a dysfunctional academic environment.
Part of that commitment is a supervisor whose job it is to make sure that you are ready to hold a successful defense. Their reputation with their peers is on the line in your performance. They are invested in creating success. When I supervised MA theses, I told my students that I would not let a date be set for a defense until I was satisfied with their thesis. And I read every word many times in advance before I would do that.
When you hear of people failing their defenses in the US, those are freak cases today. As I said, either the student antagonized the supervisor or the supervisor failed to do their job. Extremely rare.
I'm not saying that's the case here in Korea. I don't doubt the author of the column's claim. But the same thing happens elsewhere, for other reasons. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| bellum99 wrote: |
| I wonder what jail time they will get....oh right...they will get none. The evil English teacher got 6 months in jail but the most famous professors who lie get nothing. Welcome to Korea, land of the racist. |
As has been pointed out, defrauding immigration to gain illegal entry is generally considered in every single nation on the face of the earth a far more serious crime than fraud against a private company. |
Christ, does this state of affairs need to be explained to the whiners yet again? Apparently, seeing the difference is beyond some people. Or they just like to squeal 'Racist!!".
I thought it was made quite clear on the original thread regarding the FT who got busted. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Woland wrote: |
When I supervised MA theses, I told my students that I would not let a date be set for a defense until I was satisfied with their thesis. And I read every word many times in advance before I would do that.
When you hear of people failing their defenses in the US, those are freak cases today. As I said, either the student antagonized the supervisor or the supervisor failed to do their job. Extremely rare.
I'm not saying that's the case here in Korea. I don't doubt the author of the column's claim. But the same thing happens elsewhere, for other reasons. |
| Quote: |
According to the prosecution's investigation, most of the fake theses passed examinations. The universities that administered those examinations reportedly included top universities in Seoul. "The customers gave minimal information to the ghostwriters, such as a title and table of contents, and the writers researched and found references," said prosecutor Park Seong-hoon.
A professor who was part of an examination committee that accepted several ghostwritten theses said, "The quality of the theses was poor, but I didn't want to disqualify them. I never knew they were written by others." |
Ghostwriters investigated: Firms selling graduate projects face charges. by Kang Joo-an, JoongAng Daily (March 17, 2003)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=1949410 |
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