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rmparent
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Location: Gangnam
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 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: LCD vs. PDP? |
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I'm thinking of blowing some of my hard earned cash on a nice display that I've been yearning for for quite some time now.
I want to get something that's full HD (1080p) and spend about 1.5 mil. I know that most would think LCD is the way to go but I want to get more opinions before I go out and get one.
For about 1.5, I can get a 37in LCD with full HD. For about 2-300,000 less, I can get a 42 in. plasma.
Is there really that big of a difference between just HD and full HD? Is it also worth spending a little more for LCD even though the screen size is smaller? |
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kprrok
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Location: KC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Do you have a high definition receiver? A HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player? If not, why bother getting a big TV? Regular signals look pretty crappy on the bigger TVs. If you don't have high-def stuff, you probably shouldn't get bigger than a 32" screen. Any bigger and everything just looks terrible.
Also, you need to remember that most broadcasting is in standard 16:9 format, and if you have a widescreen in 2.35:1 or so, you'll have nice black bars on each side of your TV b/c the broadcast isn't converted to fit your TV.
KPRROK |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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I think bigger is better.
Get the 42" plasma. You shouldn't worry about the differences in the technology unless you decide to go bigger. My friend back home has a 42" Vizio plasma and it looks awesome. Xbox 360 games looked great. Even dark games like Gears of War came out really well. HD sports broadcasts looked great too.
As for FULL HD, read this article:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/1080p-and-the-acuity-of-human-vision/
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Put bluntly, from 8 feet away while watching a 50 inch plasma TV, the human eye is generally incapable of reliably distinguishing any detail finer than that shown on a true 720p display!
Of course there are other factors that affect perceived image quality. The way color is handled, the latency of pixel illumination, motion artifacts and the effects of the algorithms that fit the image data to the native resolution of the display (and more importantly the SOURCE) all play a part in a qualitative assessment of the image. It�s safe to say, however, that increasing resolution and image refresh rate alone are not enough to provide a startlingly better viewing experience in a typical flat panel or rear projection residential installation. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| kprrok wrote: |
Also, you need to remember that most broadcasting is in standard 16:9 format, and if you have a widescreen in 2.35:1 or so, you'll have nice black bars on each side of your TV b/c the broadcast isn't converted to fit your TV.
KPRROK |
Most broadcasts are at 4:3 resolution, rather, and HD content is at 16:9, which I suspect you meant to write. |
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kprrok
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Location: KC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Thunndarr wrote: |
| kprrok wrote: |
Also, you need to remember that most broadcasting is in standard 16:9 format, and if you have a widescreen in 2.35:1 or so, you'll have nice black bars on each side of your TV b/c the broadcast isn't converted to fit your TV.
KPRROK |
Most broadcasts are at 4:3 resolution, rather, and HD content is at 16:9, which I suspect you meant to write. |
Oops, you're right. I was writing that quickly before class. This just proves that doing things quickly isn't the best idea.
Thanks for the clarification and correction.
KPRROK |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Plasma is reported to be on its way out, as it consumes a lot of energy and is too costly for producers. Still, plasma seems to be the way to go if you like movies. And the burn-in danger has been greatly reduced thanks to advances, and plasmas no longer gobble so much power as they used to.
LCD is taking over, and prices for LCD big screens are expected to drop this fall because of growing competition from Taiwanese makers. Still, LCD suffers from slower response time (as in you'll see ghosts when watching sports or action scenes), viewing angle (you need to sit around the center) and other problems.
Funny thing is, Korean companies have given up on DLP in Korea, though the technology remains a popular format in the U.S. DLPs are cheaper than LCDs or plasmas, though they have the bulb problem in that the bulb could go out earlier than scheduled. A replacement costs 300,000 or 400,000 won, but put in a new bulb and it's like you have a new TV. Of course, DLP has the typical drawbacks in that you cannot see it from an angle and it has a poor picture if the room is heavily lighted.
Read the link below for more info:
http://hdguru.com/?p=16 |
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mrsquirrel
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| I saw quite a few tv's on sale at Yongsan on Saturday. 25% off on some of them 32in Plasma for 600K i tink |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| A short and sweet answer is that resolution is not the only factor you should be looking at. Black level, color saturation, and contrast level are what really make a picture pop out at you. In any case, I was listening to a tech podcast recently and one of the podcasters mentioned that viewed under proper viewing conditions, most people actually prefer plasma to LCD. This has to do with the glossy screens most plasma tvs have, which look like crap in a store, but look great and give excellent black levels in a properly darkened room. (And plasma technology has an advantage in black level anyway.) |
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rmparent
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| kprrok wrote: |
| Do you have a high definition receiver? A HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player? If not, why bother getting a big TV? |
Actually I plan on subscribing to digital cable once I get it and hopefully get a PS3 in the near future.
Just wondering, can you still get HD quality programming from HD channels from an analog receiver if I buy a set with a built-in tuner? |
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FistFace
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Location: Peekaboo! I can see you! And I know what you do!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| Plasma is reported to be on its way out, as it consumes a lot of energy and is too costly for producers. Still, plasma seems to be the way to go if you like movies. And the burn-in danger has been greatly reduced thanks to advances, and plasmas no longer gobble so much power as they used to. |
I've owned both. Each TV cost in excess of $2,700. I had a 42" LCD 1080p TV, and currently own a 50" PDP that's a 1080i-capable 768p TV (that means it scales a 1080i signal down to 1366x768, which is common). I also helped my girlfriend purchase her 29" Samsung LCD, and use that a lot as well.
My thoughts:
The LCD and the PDP handle contrast differently. They also look different.
LCD:
LCDs look better at first. They have a greater level of detail, sharpness, brightness and contrast. They win the "WOW" factor at first glance -- especially on the typical showroom floor. They will never "burn in", although it's arguable if PDPs will do that like before (most still err on the side of caution with PDPs, though, in the first 100 to 200 hours of use, because they are susecptible to burn-in early-on).
The negative things about LCD you don't notice at first are that LCDs have a tendency to muddy the details in the blacks. You don't notice this sort of thing at first, because you're too busy ooo-ing and ahhh-ing over the incredible sharpness in the image. After time, however, that crisp image doesn't feel as good anymore. It looks flat and pastel -- unnatural at times. Depending on your TV, you may also begin to notice a half-dissolved ghost image trailing faster-moving objects sometimes (newer sets with high refresh rates are better at avoiding this).
Another bad issue is that LCDs can, and many models do, show "clouds" in the black background. You notice this most at night when watchingaa movie in the dark. "Clouds" means that they are uneven in lighting, and it CAN drive a picky person insane. These clouds drove me insane (LG product) and it's why I moved to PDP (LG would only exchange -- not refund me to try Samsung). Nothing more annoying than seeing a glowing-white cloud in the corners of your set on a letter-boxed movie.
One more thing -- the LCDs seem to detail/blast contrast a lot. This can make the image sharp as heck, but once you go high-def, you tend to notice things like "grain" a lot more in movies. You don't generally see grain on DVDs (it's dithered-out due to lower resolution), but in hi-def material, it really shows. A 1080p LCD, such as my first one, shows a whole lot of grain -- big and loud sometimes. You see it on PDP too, but it's not overdone, IMHO. It's totally movie-dependent. Oddly, a 720p (or 768p) set seems to smooth out the grain a bit, and on movies, I don't lose enough detail to care. Detail differences between 1080p and 720p are most noticable on HD video material (Korean dramas). On movies -- little difference.
PDP:
PDP's don't look as bright on the showroom floor. They tend to pale in comparison to LCDs. Once you get them home, however, and are in a room with the shades drawn, the image on movies is better, IMHO. A movie feels more like a movie, and the color depth of the image comes out. I actually find PDP more comfortable to watch than LCD during long periods, because the LCD was SO FRIGGIN' BRIGHT that I had to dial the sucker down to keep from getting headaches.
The downsides of PDP, however, can royally piss you off as well. PDPs BUZZ. Almost all PDPs 50" or above will buzz to some degree, I've heard. And it's worse if you are up in the mountains (elevation exacerbates it). I can certainly hear mine, when the volume is low, and it gets worse depending on signal or weather. This is not just an LG thing either -- happens with all manufacturers. That buzz can be pure annoying hell. It doesn't bother me when watching a movie, because my home theater covers it.
PDPs DO NOT USE MORE POWER THAN LCD's. That is totally misleading (and something taken out of context and used by LCD makers). Actually, the LCD uses more power. How can this be? Simple, really. The LCD panel is lit at all times, and it's pixel-dependent whether or not the light is getting through. PDP panels are only lit as much as the image needs to be lit. So if you run a PDP on full white blast for an hour, and an LCD on full white blast for an hour, the PDP WILL burn more power. BUT, if you run something like TV or a movie, the PDP will likely consume the same or a bit less power than the LCD.
So in essence, don't worry about which one is going to eat more power. That is more of an issue of what size TV you get.
| Yaya wrote: |
LCD is taking over, and prices for LCD big screens are expected to drop this fall because of growing competition from Taiwanese makers. Still, LCD suffers from slower response time (as in you'll see ghosts when watching sports or action scenes), viewing angle (you need to sit around the center) and other problems.
Funny thing is, Korean companies have given up on DLP in Korea, though the technology remains a popular format in the U.S. DLPs are cheaper than LCDs or plasmas, though they have the bulb problem in that the bulb could go out earlier than scheduled.
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LCD is taking over the market. No doubts there. But is it better? Not as far as picture quality, in my opinion, but the technology is improving so much that it will be equal very soon. I think plasma (PDP) will eventually lose out. LCDs are lighter, easier to make and transport, and I think they are more durable over time.
Given the average consumer, I would probably steer them toward a newer Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, or Sony LCD. Being that we're in Korea, that pretty much leaves you with Samsung as you choice (unless you enjoy paying ungodly import tax fees that make the Japanese sets prices insane). Pioneer is widely considered to be tops. Good luck getting that brand here for a price that's not insane.
If you get a good deal on a plasma, then go for it. As for now, I give plasmas the edge on overall movie image quality. If you mostly watch sports and news video, I'd go with an LCD (because video looks more real on LCD, IMHO).
If you play games, go with an LCD that has a high refresh rate.
Also, I have found that (at least with LG) the LCD handles HDMI digital input better than PDP. My LG Plasma actually looks BETTER using component input than HDMI most of the time. HDMI is not the same thing as DVI was... yes, digital can look "better", but HDMI has got a lot of other little quirks mucking up the image with these different sets. There are no fewer than 4 possible HDMI configurations out there, and different brands of equipment can conflict. In essence -- bugs and issues still exist. My LG TV doesn't like downscaling my PS3's signal coming in at 1080i -- my girlfriend's Samsung LCD (and my previous LG LCD) has no problem with it.
| Yaya wrote: |
A replacement costs 300,000 or 400,000 won, but put in a new bulb and it's like you have a new TV. Of course, DLP has the typical drawbacks in that you cannot see it from an angle and it has a poor picture if the room is heavily lighted.
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The typical plasma will now run in excess of 60,000 hours before the brightness is cut in half. Figure out how many hours per day you usually watch, and you'll probably notice that you'll be onto your next TV long before you have to worry about it. Do you plan to watch this same TV for eight years? I don't.
In any case, to make a set look "right" you have to set it up properly. This means dialing-down the intensely bright showroom settings on the TV. Bright and loud sells on the showroom floor, but literally gives you headaches at home.
Last edited by FistFace on Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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FistFace
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Location: Peekaboo! I can see you! And I know what you do!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| rmparent wrote: |
| kprrok wrote: |
| Do you have a high definition receiver? A HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player? If not, why bother getting a big TV? |
Actually I plan on subscribing to digital cable once I get it and hopefully get a PS3 in the near future.
Just wondering, can you still get HD quality programming from HD channels from an analog receiver if I buy a set with a built-in tuner? |
The Korean Samsung/LG TVs with built-in tuners handle both the HD and SD signals internally. I think most sets now have the tuners here. Even if you have regular cable, you get the basic available HD channels for free (I think there are about six or 7 of them). Can't remember them all -- SBS HD, KBS HD, EBS in HD, and a few more. They show up tacked-on as channels 1 to 8, after you've gone through all of the SD channels, then it cycles back to SD channel number 1 after you've gone past the last HD channel. When you first plug cable into your TV, and use the auto channel-finder feature, it will find the HD channels after it finds the SD ones.
The cable companies would rather you didn't know this, I think. They are ape$hit about wanting to sell you a digital cable package.
Personally, I've been really disappointed with my girlfriend's digital cable. They installed the box, and it didn't even have an HDMI out. THEY USED COMPOSITE outs, which is stupid beyond reason. I rewired it using the Component outs, so she at least gets a better signal from that. I also feel that the digital cable adds more "banding" otherwise called "false contouring" to an image sometimes. Different TVs handle this problem at different levels, ranging from poor to good.
Oh, a note about the HD channels -- not all of the content on them is in HD. If you watch the news in HD, maybe half of it is. The anchors are in HD, but many of the news stories were shot in SD, and it's stretched/upscaled/or black-boxed to fit the screen, just like a SD channel. So an HD channel doesn't always mean all of the content on it will be HD. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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I still say the best big screen value out there is the DLP rear projection. The cons are the rainbow effect (though I hear this has been dealt with effectively); bad picture in a brightly lit room (though I'm sure one can fiddle with the lighting to remedy this); bulbs going out early (just make sure you get a warranty); and viewing angle (one must sit in or near center to get the best pic).
I've read plenty of rave reviews in the U.S. about DLP, though no a/v store seems to carry them in Kore anymore, save the Sony and JVC stores. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| I think DLP's are just too big for Korean living rooms. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
I still say the best big screen value out there is the DLP rear projection. The cons are the rainbow effect (though I hear this has been dealt with effectively); bad picture in a brightly lit room (though I'm sure one can fiddle with the lighting to remedy this); bulbs going out early (just make sure you get a warranty); and viewing angle (one must sit in or near center to get the best pic).
I've read plenty of rave reviews in the U.S. about DLP, though no a/v store seems to carry them in Kore anymore, save the Sony and JVC stores. |
I'd say the best big screen value is a front projector, but those have their own issues. If you can live with them, then that is definitely the way to go. |
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xenok
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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i was going to give a rather technical rundown of the pros and cons of each, but FistFace beat me to it and did a great job of comparing them.
one thing i will correct is that LCDs are probably not very good for the crazy sports fan. ghosting is still an issue. PDPs tend to have a smoother picture quality with fast moving objects. however a lot of PDPs still have that annoying high pitch fan noise, so if you're sensitive to that, you should be careful. |
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