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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote:
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| Come on, you're just jealous the Left didn't follow the shining example you Righties set. Work makes you free. How is that said in German? |
"Arbeit macht frei."
from the Nazis which, smartazz, is short for National SOCIALIST Party.
That said, clearly they were fascists. But where you leftwing apologists err is in assuming that communists aren't also fascists. In practice, there is little difference between a commie and a nazis--both are fascists. Once you grasp that, we can have an informed discussion. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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McGarrett:
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Right on the ol' coconut, bruddah. That's the supreme irony of that past century: how the leftists have managed to squeeze liberty out of "the masses" they purport to uplift.
The Chinese will never rise up against the CCP out of principle again. They tried that in the late 1980's and we all know the result of that. No, if and when it comes, it will be from the inevitable rising tide of expectations, and having those expectations dashed.
(snip)
And that, my friend, is when Mao's portrait will fall from the Gate of Heavenly Peace.
I only hope I live long enough to see it. I'll drink champagne when they raise the portrait of China's real leader--Sun Zhongshan (Yat-sen). |
Judging by the above, you would also lobby against the use such surveillance on Americans? I noted you gave a rather stinging rebuke to the CCP doing it, but what of the US and various other governments within the US?
US citizens have no protections intact from the Bill of rights at present. When summary search and seizure is possible without any benefit of legal representation nor even needing to be charged with any crime for years, then none of the other rights have any meaning.
Adding to the dilution of Constitutional rights is the recent order setting the President in charge of all levels and branches of government should a state of emergency be declared. (Which would obviously be declared by the President, conveniently enough.) It is the first time since the Constitution was ratified that the separation of powers has been breached.
Does this make the US government socialist, dictatorial or fascist? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
How right you are: just ask Yahoo and Google, two supposedly progressive (re: liberal) companies, the former with Jerry Yang, an ABC, as co-owner. Note how stifled the outcry was when they agreed to limit their China reportage and email share. |
Of course, companies are only as "liberal" as their shareholders. And the major shareholders of both Yahoo and Google are institutions. Predominantly conservative, profit oriented institutions.
Nevertheless,
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9728648-7.html
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| Yahoo shareholders on Tuesday rejected proposals that link executive pay with the company?s financial performance; oppose Internet censorship demands from China; and establish a human rights committee. |
And the outcry over Google's decision wasn't that stifled. Maybe in China, or wherever you were when the news came out. But not in the US.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/05/BAGRNH345T1.DTL
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Chanting "Shame on Google" and "Google, don't be evil," students protested the Mountain View Internet company's recent decision to launch a censored Web site in China and hounded Google China President Kai-Fu Lee as he spoke Saturday at UC Berkeley and Stanford University.
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Though competitors such as Yahoo and Microsoft have made the same move, Google's decision two weeks ago has drawn extensive criticism because of its company motto "Don't be evil." |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:34 am Post subject: |
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keane (note: not keen) wrote:
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| US citizens have no protections intact from the Bill of rights at present. |
Really, I wasn't aware of that? Please do enumerate case and point, unless of course you were just engaging in a moment of leftist histrionics. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
keane (note: not keen) wrote:
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| US citizens have no protections intact from the Bill of rights at present. |
Really, I wasn't aware of that? Please do enumerate case and point, unless of course you were just engaging in a moment of leftist histrionics. |
I see. Wrath for China, apologist for Bush.
Noted.
Do you not find it rather ridiculous to pretend that the MCA, the PA, the presidential order regarding continuity of government and the presidential decrees of states of emergency vis-a-vis Iraq and, I believe, Lebanon do not infringe on the Bill of Rights?
The First two make it crystal clear that the president may declare anyone an enemy combatant. Anyone. Where is the check? The balance?
Now, cite your case and point. Mine are common knowledge and publicly published in th Acts and declarations themselves. Nobody argues this is not true, so I am surprised you are. What I might have expected was a justification and a touting of the "safeguards" as sufficient. Those tactics might have given you some room to play, but denying that rights are being infringed is a bit other-worldly. It requires a disconnect from reality.
But let's ratchet back a step: camera surveillance is not OK in China, but is OK in the U.S.? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| where you leftwing apologists err is in assuming that communists aren't also fascists. In practice, there is little difference between a commie and a nazis--both are fascists. Once you grasp that, we can have an informed discussion. |
If I ever see you in real life, I'm going to sue you for the whiplash injury to my neck you gave me in that. You've always been an arrogant blowhard. Now you reveal yourself to be an uneducated arrogant blowhard. You should sue your profs for letting you out on the streets without the basic knowledge to hold a coherent conversation.
Go back to your sandbox.
[Hint: While both are authoritarian, there is a fundamental difference between the two. How you got out of school without knowing that difference is an embarrassing commentary on the modern education system. And your inability to read and think. Or chew gum at the same time.] |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy:
Maybe that neck spasm was caused by a massive misfire of nerve synapses in the cerebellum as it tried to process a comparison of the first order.
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| While both are authoritarian, there is a fundamental difference between the two |
Really, duckie? Pray tell what the difference would be for the man in the street living in Stalin's Soviet Union or Hitler's Nazi Germany? Both were totalitarian states. Cuba is no better than Iran at present, though they come from opposite ends of the ideological spectrum.
And by the way, I guess eminent British historian Arnold Toynbee was also an idiot since it was he who first articulated this irony by juxtaposing both systems.
Now run along and have a sandwich with EFLT.
EFLT wrote:
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| Wrath for China, apologist for Bush |
Your insistence of equating these two demonstrates your utter lack of proportionality, in terms of historical perspective or your knowledge of the inner workings of the CCP and PSB. But do spout on. It's amusing, in an odd sort of way. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Ya-ta Boy:
Maybe that neck spasm was caused by a massive misfire of nerve synapses in the cerebellum as it tried to process a comparison of the first order.
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| While both are authoritarian, there is a fundamental difference between the two |
Really, duckie? Pray tell what the difference would be for the man in the street living in Stalin's Soviet Union or Hitler's Nazi Germany? Both were totalitarian states. Cuba is no better than Iran at present, though they come from opposite ends of the ideological spectrum.
And by the way, I guess eminent British historian Arnold Toynbee was also an idiot since it was he who first articulated this irony by juxtaposing both systems.
Now run along and have a sandwich with EFLT.
EFLT wrote:
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| Wrath for China, apologist for Bush |
Your insistence of equating these two demonstrates your utter lack of proportionality, in terms of historical perspective or your knowledge of the inner workings of the CCP and PSB. But do spout on. It's amusing, in an odd sort of way. |
A pattern develops: complete lack of support for your contentions paired with attempted belittling, that is, insulting your adversary while offering no defense for your position. That is, you are beaten.
Sad, really. I hadn't realized the skirmish had yet begun.
Let's provide you with a chance at salvation: I was not equating the two governments, I was equating the two behaviors. Does that help you sort things out, friend?
I find reading the private messages of the citizens of a nation abhorrent. I find filming their actions in public abhorrent. Neither can be defended under the principles transcribed in the Declaration of Independence nor in the Constitution of the United States of America. Yet, you fail to even address the issue with regard to the rights violations within the borders of the United States, but rail against those in the CCP.
Do explain.
You seem to adhere to the adage, "If you can't beat 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull excrement." As it were. Sadly, I remain un-baffled. Beaten is obviously not even in the realm of possibility at this juncture.
A fine joust. Next time I suggest something more formidable than a tongue sticking out of your mouth. |
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just4u
Joined: 30 May 2007
Location: Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1699 |
Indeed. |
Whaaat? |
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