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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:34 am Post subject: Sexual Liberation in the Arab World |
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Summer of Love: The spirit of the 1960s touched the Arab world too, but rapidly faded away.
Interesting article: Castles made of sand
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As the Summer of Love faded into winter, Jimi Hendrix released Axis Bold as Love in December 1967. One of the tracks on this treasured album, which ranges from the funky and ethereal to the moving and melancholic, is the soulful and sad "Castles made of sand".
Legend has it that Hendrix was inspired to write this meditative song by the beautiful Moorish forts in the sleepy and picturesque Moroccan port town of Essaouira which he, and before him Orson Welles, helped transform into a magnet for the hip and happening. Led Zeppelin were also drawn to Arab sounds and culture.
And the infatuation was mutual. Even mainstream Arab musicians started to experiment with western guitar riffs and synthesised sounds. In the 1960s and 1970s, millions of young Arab men and women followed the currents of western fashion: the then rebellious Beatle's mop-tops (which earned them the Arabic epithet khanfis "beetles" from their bewildered elders), miniskirts, sleeveless dresses, long hippy hair, tight flairs, even tighter shirts with wings for collars.
But why is it that now, in the 21st century, those early shoots seem to have failed to bloom? Part of the problem is that, as Hendrix would put it: "castles made of sand fall in the sea, eventually". |
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dogshed
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| The same thing happened in Kansas. |
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in_seoul_2003
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: |
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I realy wish people would mature a little and stop attaching liberty to sexuality. It's been disputed to death.
There was even one poster around here who implied, or, perhaps, outright stated, that Korean women are sexually repressed for not wearing thongs. Which would be the equivalent to saying that Western women are repressed for feeling that femininity and sexuality are contingent on running a string up the crevice of their asses. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| I realy wish people would mature a little and stop attaching liberty to sexuality. |
Aldous Huxley argued in a preface to Brave New World that societies which generally restrict personal freedom will also promote a high degree of sexual freedom.
Not sure if the real world has backed up Huxley's claims, though. I think we could all name a lot of places where sexual freedom is restricted along with all the other freedoms. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: |
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There is a difference between a society being sexually repressive and the formal structures of power being sexually repressive. One is of concern, and the other not.
Liberty is the freedom to chose IF you wish to follow certain norms. If the state prevents this decision, then the state is limiting freedom. Iranian police walking around with horse-whips, slapping the exposed ankles of Uni aged girls is most certainly limiting their sexual/personal liberty. (Yes, I know Iran isn't the Arab world) |
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in_seoul_2003
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| I realy wish people would mature a little and stop attaching liberty to sexuality. |
Aldous Huxley argued in a preface to Brave New World that societies which generally restrict personal freedom will also promote a high degree of sexual freedom.
Not sure if the real world has backed up Huxley's claims, though. I think we could all name a lot of places where sexual freedom is restricted along with all the other freedoms. |
Not sure how this would relate to Huxley, but it is often said that the Victorian era was a very sexually restricted place but proved itself to be incredibly naughty elsewhere.
There is a difference between restriction and repression, at least how most people use it.
There are countries which restrict public displays of affection, even hand-holding. But you would be impossibly pressed to go from that to suggesting that people who cannot hold hands in public are a lesser proximity to 'sexuality' as people who are allowed to drop it all and bang right there in the Costco parking lot.
Sexuality is contingent, discursive. Repression, on the other hand, assumes it to be a natural given such that people around the world are closer or further from the 'truth' of sex.
As far as 'choice' goes, well, that another matter alltogether. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Ah the ignorance of the white masses on the private matters of Arabs.
FYI, there's a whole lot of butt F u king going on. This is legendary! Just because you don't see it out in the open happening on the streets every single day, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen plenty of gay Gulf Arab men out at the strip joints in Oman. This is the type of stuff you people never get a chance to see. Cameras are forbidden. I got some of it on my cell phone and almost got my but kicked. I was hanging out with expats who've been in the region for nearly 15 years who told me all about the men having lavish wedding parties for they gay male counterpart who gets his own house. They go to visit their wives for breeding purposes. I've heard stories about my expat friends who've accidently encountered b. fuk orgies out in the desert. I've personally seen the drag queens and the gay males hand in hand cheek to cheek doing the dirty dancing. When touched by female strippers they react out of disgust..... gay as hell. Just because you people don't know what really goes on out there doesn't mean it doesn't happen!
FYI, many muslims don't consider anal sex to be real sex. Take a good look at belly dancing and all the but shaking going on. They engage in that type of sex all the time like it's no big deal. |
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Leavingkorea
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Although you are correct that it is very very common (especially among young boys who don't have access to women)...
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| FYI, many muslims don't consider anal sex to be real sex. |
This is a bit misleading. Anal sex is considered a sin. It's commonness is more to do with the fact that premarital relations with women is considered to be a great sinner. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Leavingkorea wrote: |
Although you are correct that it is very very common (especially among young boys who don't have access to women)...
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| FYI, many muslims don't consider anal sex to be real sex. |
This is a bit misleading. Anal sex is considered a sin. It's commonness is more to do with the fact that premarital relations with women is considered to be a great sinner. |
Oh they have anal sex with women too. A lot of women think it's okay because they can maintain their hymen and thus appear to be a virgin when they get married. Muslims turn a blind eye to anal sex just as long as the family doesn't know anything. It's also a sin for Muslims to drink but you'll see plenty of them out all over the world partying it up with just a few drinks or two.  
Hey, I've got lots of Arab friends... I know. They aren't as sexually repressed as they would have you believe. Trust me! |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Somehow this refreshes my faith in mankind somewhat. Now if they can keep the lid on the extremist elements, I'll be happy. |
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in_seoul_2003
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| about the men having lavish wedding parties for they gay male counterpart |
Wow, this reads like something out of a European harem fantasy. It's almost as bad as anything from sundubuman.
But just to get technical, two men who engage in anal sex are not one and the same in all cultures. It can be conceived as the 'penetrator vs the penetrated': the man who is penetrating doesn't compromise his masculinity, even heterosexuality, because he's not being entered into by another man. Pentrating into another man, on the other hand, is experienced as having a dominating effect.
So, technically, they can't both be "gay" as you mentioned above. "Gay" is a Western construct. Not that the West invented male-male sexual contact. Only that they began to emphasize these contacts as expressions of an exclusive, total self.
By the way, this is as true for the cultures of Latin America, India, many Asian cultures, and even the West to a certain extent.
Oh, and, of course, every prison stateside.
Classic book:
Gilbert Herdt, Ritualized Homosexuality in Melanesia. |
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| in_seoul_2003 wrote: |
I realy wish people would mature a little and stop attaching liberty to sexuality. It's been disputed to death.
There was even one poster around here who implied, or, perhaps, outright stated, that Korean women are sexually repressed for not wearing thongs. Which would be the equivalent to saying that Western women are repressed for feeling that femininity and sexuality are contingent on running a string up the crevice of their asses. |
So you don't want to hear from any posters who disagree with you?
-Think of the countries (areas) in the world considered to be most liberal.
-Now, consider how women choose to dress and behave sexually in those countries.
Please Ms Mature, enlighten me. |
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