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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: Catholics should call God "allah": Dutch bishop |
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| http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/ |
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AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims.
Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television on Monday that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass.
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Dutch Catholics are free to call God anything they like, of course. I think the bishop is somewhat naive, however, if he thinks that an otherwise anti-Christian Muslim is gonna be mollified simply by hearing Catholics use the word "Allah". |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| It really wouldn't matter if Catholics called God Allah, which is why the suggestion is kind of strange. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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That sounds rather silly. You can't just change a single term and have it at that, then you have to decide whether to go with inshallah and all the rest instead of thank God, etc.
Plus it's two syllables instead of one. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| thank God, etc. |
Inter-faith accord would go out the window once Christians start saying, "Allah-dammit!" |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Inter-faith accord would go out the window once Christians start saying, "Allah-dammit!"
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder if that dude's aware that Arab Christians already refer to their deity as Allah. |
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Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder if that dude's aware that Arab Christians already refer to their deity as Allah. |
I wonder if Central-Cali knows Arab Christians are being cleansed from the ME. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Catholics should call God "allah": Dutch bisho |
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[quote="On the other hand"]
| Quote: |
| http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/ |
| Quote: |
AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims.
Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television on Monday that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass.
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Christians in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Iraq already call God Allah.
Muslims borrowed the name from people who came before them, so the name belonged to Christians first, in actuality. I said that already on this forum and told people that in Eastern Syriac people call Allah: Allaha and in Western Syriac they call Allah -Alloho. However, I don't agree with having all faiths calling God Allah in order to placate Muslims and reach some superificial bridge of understanding. We aren't having problems with semantics and language. |
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in_seoul_2003
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Catholics should call God "allah": Dutch bisho |
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[quote="Adventurer"]
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/ |
| Quote: |
AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims.
Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television on Monday that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass.
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so the name belonged to Christians first, in actuality. |
Do you mean that the name "Allah" was simply used by Christians before Muslims or that Christians were the very first people to use this name?
I was aware of Christians using the name Allah but I always suspected that the name belonged to no organized religion in the ME since it was probably being used by religious figures long before there was organized religion (eg., Abraham). |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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on the other hand wrote:
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| Dutch Catholics are free to call God anything they like, of course. I think the bishop is somewhat naive, however, if he thinks that an otherwise anti-Christian Muslim is gonna be mollified simply by hearing Catholics use the word "Allah". |
Good thread topic and article to reveal just how much wishful, naive thinking goes on in socialist Western Europe these days. The Dutch have really lost it. It started decades ago when they let the military unionize and soldiers keep their hair long and shaggy. Prostitution is legal and the government provides city maps for tourists. Hardcore porn is sold at kiosks in the airports in Rotterdam and Amsterdam and shown on public TV in the early evening.
One of these mornings Western Europe is going to wake up with a very big cultural headache and they will have no one to blame but themselves.
Tony Balony wrote:
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| I wonder if Central-Cali knows Arab Christians are being cleansed from the ME. |
Touche. Ouch.
P.S. (way off topic; apologies to OTOH): did you know that one of the biggest selling points of OM is its use of bright yellow labels? They actually shared the idea with McDonald's in the 1950's. Yellow attracts consumer attention but OM also picked it to subconsciously remind consumers of mustard. Interesting tidbit, eh? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Catholics should call God "allah": Dutch bisho |
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[quote="in_seoul_2003"]
| Adventurer wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/ |
| Quote: |
AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims.
Bishop Tiny Muskens, from the southern diocese of Breda, told Dutch television on Monday that God did not mind what he was named and that in Indonesia, where Muskens spent eight years, priests used the word "Allah" while celebrating Mass.
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so the name belonged to Christians first, in actuality. |
Do you mean that the name "Allah" was simply used by Christians before Muslims or that Christians were the very first people to use this name?
I was aware of Christians using the name Allah but I always suspected that the name belonged to no organized religion in the ME since it was probably being used by religious figures long before there was organized religion (eg., Abraham). |
Well, organized religion existed in ancient times. I meant that Christians used the word or name Allah before Islam existed and since Islam borrowed from Aramaic Christians, which they would deny, then they would have borrowed it. The Quran does contain some Aramaic, after all.
I do know the ancient Chaldeans who were Aramaic pagans did use the name. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Why has nobody asked the muslims, since they are the immigrants who carry the burden of assimilating to their chosen county, that if they want less people to feel hostility towards them they should substitute "allah" with "god".
Nah. We don't ask muslims to make concessions. They do that of us. Anyways, they'd prolly blow up a train and burn down 40 schools if you did ask them. Best to keep your head down, I reckon. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| P.S. (way off topic; apologies to OTOH): did you know that one of the biggest selling points of OM is its use of bright yellow labels? They actually shared the idea with McDonald's in the 1950's. Yellow attracts consumer attention but OM also picked it to subconsciously remind consumers of mustard. Interesting tidbit, eh? |
No need to apologize, but:
What is OM? |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Tony_Balony wrote: |
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| I wonder if that dude's aware that Arab Christians already refer to their deity as Allah. |
I wonder if Central-Cali knows Arab Christians are being cleansed from the ME. |
Yeah, right. How well do you suppose that'll go over in Lebanon? Or is Lebanon not part of the Mid-East in your geography? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Steve wrote:
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| Hardcore porn is sold at kiosks in the airports in Rotterdam and Amsterdam |
I've never been to Holland. However, the porn sold in those kiosks would have to be pretty freaking hardcore to beat the stuff you can buy at almost any North American newsstand. Are we talking children and animals here?
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shown on public TV in the early evening.
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Well, I don't think regular run-of-the-mill cable shows porn in the early evening in North America. Mind you, that's kind of a moot point these days, seeing as how its sold in the video stores, and there's not much to stop parents from letting their kids watch it. To say nothing of the internet.
And anyway: As long as the Dutch are gobbling up hardcore porn, doesn't that kind of show that the Islamists are losing? |
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