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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: The drunks of Insadong |
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Donkey Beer
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| I've seen the guy in the top pic before! He has a bottle of milky white filth nearby when he awakens from his drunken stupor. |
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sojourner1
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Take a look around the Jongno (3) Sam-ga when you come up out of the station where there are 8 interesting wood poles at the intersection that look like the masts of old wooden ships.
It's soju-o-holic central, naturally where garbage piles up often with all these drunks wollering in it, even a spare mattress to go around from time to time. In the mornings, you will see people laying around with all the tell tale small green bottles sitting by one passed out man. Lots of times, you see 4, 5, or 6 of those green bottles which is allot to consume in one setting! I have seen all these wasted and rotting looking guys laying in the streets having vomited on themselves in every town I visited so far. I have never seen such chronic alcoholism before. It's funny, but sad at the same time. |
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HighTreason
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| sojourner1 wrote: |
| Lots of times, you see 4, 5, or 6 of those green bottles which is allot to consume in one setting! |
I doubt it's allot; It's more likely soju. Either way, when I set out to consume 5 or 6 bottles of either allot or soju, I usually do try to consume each one in a different setting. Consuming them all in one setting gets a bit boring. Of course, after a while, it gets a bit hard to change settings because of the difficulty with balance and coordination... |
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RedRob
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Narnia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Man, lighten up, its Insa Dong, they are probably all tortured artists  |
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xeno439
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| HighTreason wrote: |
| sojourner1 wrote: |
| Lots of times, you see 4, 5, or 6 of those green bottles which is allot to consume in one setting! |
I doubt it's allot; It's more likely soju. Either way, when I set out to consume 5 or 6 bottles of either allot or soju, I usually do try to consume each one in a different setting. Consuming them all in one setting gets a bit boring. Of course, after a while, it gets a bit hard to change settings because of the difficulty with balance and coordination... |
Is "allot" a drink? Surely it was a typo.
"It was a lot to consume . . ." makes more sense than say . . .
"It was a vodka to consume . . . "
Catch my drift? |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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MM2, I'm usually a fan of your photo essays ... they're usually informative and/or amusing.
But unless you're a paid professional photojournalist or freelancer on assignment to document the problems of drunks in Insa-dong, your photos raise the age old ethical issue of exploitation. The homeless/downtrodden/hopelessly drunk are easy targets for a lot of things, and I think they don't deserve to be demeaned any further by cameraphone toting, glorified tourists.
Did you ask their permission first before you took their photo? That's the first rule of photographing people, and by the looks of your photos, it doesn't appear as though they even know what day it was, leave alone being able to give permission to have their photo taken. It's like those contemptable sort you see in Bangkok or Manila or Siem Reap snapping shots of homeless kids or one-legged men, just to take home and show their friends so they can all wax philosophic about the problems in the world and feel better about themselves.
Life on the street is enough of a public peepshow gawkfest as it is ... don't further dehumanize these people by posting their photos, presumably without their permission, on a public message board.
That's all. I'll climb down from my soapbox now. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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OP- I see drunks like that every morning when I go out to jog. It's worse when they puke all over the sidewalk.
But,hey,why not do it?- After all, Korean women LOVE guys who do that crap. They LOVE them to death. Talk about enablers... |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I think they don't deserve to be demeaned any further by cameraphone toting, glorified tourists. |
I think they do.
I'd have to disagree with you, Indytrucks, on a couple points. Professional photographers are the ones with a responsibility to ask permission and/or use discretion, as their photos have a wider audience, they represent a media of some kind (newspaper, wire service, etc..), and should follow journalistic ethics. "Camaraphone toting, glorified tourists" don't have those ethics. Morals, perhaps, ethics, no. I'm sure MM2 sleeps well at night. I do agree, however, that blogs and message boards can blur those lines.
Next, there is a big difference between "homeless kids or one-legged men" (who are usually the ones in tourist areas begging, by the way, but I won't go there) and drunks passed out after 4 soju bottles. One group had a choice in the matter, the other didn't. Can you see the difference? I have little sympathy for the drunks, and if a little shame is brought their way, all the better. Maybe they would do something about it (as if they read this site).
Third, and continuing with the shame issue- these drunks are in one of the, if not THE MAIN, MOST PROMOTED tourist area in all of Korea. The Korean Tourism Board or whatever has enough of any image problem at the moment, without having to worry about drunks (not as bad as other huge metros, by the way). If pictures like this draw attention to the problem, then I support it. You've lived in Korea long enough. Shame on the Tourist Board's part is strong motivation to change things (should be stronger). More so than some 20 year old part-time cop trying to move these drunks, who think they have Confuscian entitlement.
Fourth, you can hardly make out their faces in the photos. If anybody recognizes these people, you either spend too much time in Insadong, or too much time with drunks. |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| HapKi wrote: |
| Professional photographers are the ones with a responsibility to ask permission and/or use discretion, as their photos have a wider audience, they represent a media of some kind (newspaper, wire service, etc..), and should follow journalistic ethics. "Camaraphone toting, glorified tourists" don't have those ethics. Morals, perhaps, ethics, no. |
Fair enough. Morals, yes, ethics, no. I know that I am sure to ask permission of ALL people I photograph, and if they are really interested I arrange to send them a print of the result. I've collected quite a few interesting contacts that way over the years.
I make an effort not to photograph subjects like the homeless, disabled, drug addicts or drunks. As a non-professional, there's no nobility in it. There is usually a reason people lie passed out on the street, and a lot of the reasons are interconnected. Photos like the ones in this thread are meant to be sensationalist for sensationalism's sake.
I guess what bothered me most about the photos is that they came with no explaination, no captions, no nothing, just a random selection of shots of passed out drunks. I don't understand what the purpose of the OP is. I'm left to assume the motivation is for the members of this board to sit around and mock/lament the state of alcohol abuse in this country/ comment on how drunks can be allowed to be passed out, like you said, in a major Seoul tourist area. Whatever.
I think the photos are exploitative and demeaning. Like you (correctly) mentioned, the advent of bloggers, the Internet, and public message boards have blurred the line to exactly how wide an audience things like amateur photos are capable reaching, and the ethical considerations that go with them. That's the lovely thing about the bloggers: they want (nay, demand) to be treated with the same respect and given the same (if not more) credibility as the professionals, but with none of the professional responsibilities that come with the territory.
My opinion. You're free to disagree. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| They're getting drunk and making trouble IN PUBLIC. If they don't want their pics taken, do that crap at home. |
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jg
Joined: 27 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Indytrucks about not mocking others for our own entertainment, as corny as that sounds. Especially since MM2 occasioned to pick on vulnerable people, before a teen girl who had passed out, and now drunks. Whatever we think of people's weaknesses, that's kinda exploitative. I don't know about any of you, but I'd hate for someone to snap photos of me at a moment of my weakness. I guess you could make the point that "they don't know, what's the harm", but thats kinda beside the point.
I know, corny or preachy, but. |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Posting sensational pictures on an anonymous board is a cop out, I agree. But along with the lack of moral/ethical responsiblity we've talked about, some good can come of it. Awareness and Change. Yes, more preaching. Sorry. |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Who I'd really like to hear from is the OP, who seems like a nice enough fellow and is a long standing, well respected member of this board. |
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Lunar Groove Gardener
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: 1987 Subaru
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Alcoholism has for many decades been defined, diagnosed and treated as a disease by the medical profession, period.
Saying that you have no compassion for people that suffer from a specific disease is a point of view worth reconsidering.
I am curious about the right and wrong of taking pictures of the impoverished etc. It's somewhat of a temptation at times when traveling. I am inspired by portraits and expressive, weathered faces abound in the "wild".
I find in general if I ask and am willing to pay them what they want for their portrait it resolves the issue of "permission". |
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