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HUGO CHAVEZ PULLS ANOTHER HUGO: NO TERM LIMITS
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mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

mindmetoo wrote:

...They elected Chavez. Let 'em hang.

With all due respect, this is a current-events discussion board. We are not forming American policy. Or plotting and executing coups d'etat here, Mindmetoo. Or deciding which govts get to survive or not -- many posters' extremely-harsh, judgmental nature and/or McGarrett's probably intentionally-provocative initial post notwithstanding.

In any case, whether Venezuelans elected Chavez, or whether he is worse than Hitler (and I, for one, have never said, heard, or read such an assertion), we may still pay attn to and comment on what is going on there. And simply because we do, that does not mean that we are militating for a coup d'etat or what-have-you -- something we have no way of influencing from this obscure place anyway.

At the end of the day, 2007 or not, Caribbean politics remain Caribbean politics. He came in violently; he will go down violently.

Indeed. But the reality is joe voter will start to get pissed off. He called Bush Satan! Jesus rogering a bear biker! We gotta put the smack down on him. And a politician will ride that to power and Chavez will be another international pariah and America needs to save the people...

Sincinnatislink

Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject:

Wow. This got awful quick. I'll say it again. Venezuela's current civilian government is an enormous step forward from the previous US-backed government. Rule of Law strikes me as a very good start.

Sincinnatislink

Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

If FARC hijacks US planes and crashes them into sky scrapers then you can be sure the US will take him down.

Just like the US laid down the law re: hostages with Iran in the seventies?

Oh nevermind. We waited a few years and then sold them missiles to use against a secular government instead.

keane

Joined: 09 Jul 2007

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

Welcome to EFLTrainer's mental world. Were he in charge, he would suppress if not delete all threads like this and permit only those that angrily denounced 9/11 as a govt conspiracy, those that panicked and railed against "peak oil" and global warming ("all fall down go boom!" he is rather fond of saying), and those that bitterly attacked his own personal Antichrist, the President, and called again and again and again and again and again...for his impeachment.

Love ya, man! Unfortunately, I have never stated any such. (I state the obvious for the delusional among us.)

Perhaps this will help you with your problem:

http://health.ivillage.com/mentalhealth/mhpersonality/0,,ks,00.html

Quote:

There are several possible reasons -- or labels -- for your friend's behavior. People who lie constantly are often called pathological liars. That's not an official clinical diagnosis, which means it's not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, or DSM-IV. But chronic lying in adults is often a manifestation of antisocial personality disorder (also known as sociopathy). Sociopaths are often deceitful and manipulative in order to gain personal profit or pleasure.

Sometimes an individual with dissociative identity disorder (DID), formerly known as multiple personality disorder, will deny doing things for which they have amnesia (don't remember). In such situations, the person may have no memory of doing X and swear up and down that it didn't happen. But anyone who actually saw the DID individual engaging in the disputed behavior will believe he or she is just lying. Obviously, the situation is more complicated than that. (Of course, some people with DID can also have sociopathic tendencies and intentionally lie about some things.)

Sometimes an individual with dissociative identity disorder (DID), formerly known as multiple personality disorder, will deny doing things for which they have amnesia (don't remember). In such situations, the person may have no memory of doing X and swear up and down that it didn't happen. But anyone who actually saw the DID individual engaging in the disputed behavior will believe he or she is just lying. Obviously, the situation is more complicated than that. (Of course, some people with DID can also have sociopathic tendencies and intentionally lie about some things.)

DID is treatable with long-term psychotherapy. So is antisocial personality disorder, although such individuals will often not seek out treatment on their own or not follow through on treatment once it begins. (The earlier the treatment occurs, though, the better the chances of success.) Sometimes adults with antisocial personality disorder will be motivated for treatment when consequences of their behavior -- such as legal or financial trouble -- cause them distress.

Of course, only your friend really knows the reason for her chronic lying, and ultimately it's up to her to get the help she needs. Until then, you'd probably do yourself (and perhaps her) a favor by refusing to take whatever she says at face value ... at least not until she demonstrates that her word can be trusted.

keane

Joined: 09 Jul 2007

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: HUGO CHAVEZ PULLS ANOTHER HUGO: NO TERM LIMITS

bucheon bum wrote:

keane wrote:

McGarrett is a vocal supporter of the Bush Administration and has spent a good deal of time of late tsk-tsking at China's and Chavez' actions while ignoring the same faults in his own nation. I am curious as to why.

I can't believe this but I'm defending McGarrett here. Vocal supporter of the Bush Adminstration? Say what?? He certainly is tilted towards the right and bashes the democrats and liberals, but I haven't seen Steve McG really give Bush or any of his cronies strong backing.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. i admit I might have amnesia in this case and/or missed a thread or two where he was totally gung ho about the Bush administration. But if you do correct me, please direct me towards such threads. Wink

I don't recall him ever taking them to task. Not being gung ho is not the same as criticizing or protesting. Please correct me me if *I* am wrong and McGarrett has made pronunciations against the PA, MCA, and the recent presidential directives.

Quote:

RE:China and chavez vs. USA- big deal. So he decides to post that way, why do you care?

It is the contrast that is interesting. I don't recall any defense of American civil liberties. When a neo-con or con rail against the abuses of others but not those in their own nation, it makes one a little suspicious.

stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

Quote:

See on this issue, maybe I'm on EFLkeane's side. If the dude wants to destroy his economy, well, he's doing it with a mandate from the people. We really don't need another "he's worse that hitler! we need to save them from their oppressive leader!" pariah some politicians rides to power. The Burma junta isn't exactly a sweet peach either.

They elected Chavez. Let 'em hang.

I wouldn't exactly describe Chavez's support as a "mandate." That would be like asserting that Bush had earned a mandate after the 2004 election. Their is grower resistance to his rule and not only from those hardened against him ideologically.

As for Myanmar, I hope you're not implying that the junta has popular support. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Sincinnatislink wrote:

Quote:

Venezuela's current civilian government is an enormous step forward from the previous US-backed government. Rule of Law strikes me as a very good start.

This comment smacks of gee-whiz liberalism. Do enumerate the many ways in which Chavez has made enormous steps forward for his people. I'm waiting with bated breath.

keane/EFLT/Kucinich wrote:

Quote:

McGarrett has made pronunciations against the PA, MCA, and the recent presidential directives.

Did you mean "pronouncements," or possibly "protestations?" Rolling Eyes

I have no beef with MCA Entertainment. I often view films their studios have produced.

As for Pennsylvannia, I would like to visit Lancaster County and see the life of the Amish. I understand their womenfolk bake excellent pies.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject:

Sincinnatislink wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

If FARC hijacks US planes and crashes them into sky scrapers then you can be sure the US will take him down.

Just like the US laid down the law re: hostages with Iran in the seventies?

Oh nevermind. We waited a few years and then sold them missiles to use against a secular government instead.

that secular government was Saddams Iraq.

It is just too bad that Saddam's Iraq and Khomeni's Iran didn't destroy each other. The US was stupid help bring that war to an end.

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject:

Sincinnatislink wrote:

Wow. This got awful quick.
I'll say it again.

Venezuela's current civilian government is an enormous step forward from the previous US-backed government. Rule of Law strikes me as a very good start.

right.

How is it a step forward?

And do you honestly think Chavez's actions aren't hurting his country in the long term? Do you really think that Venezula isn't going to get hit hard in the near future?

If you really think that Chavez's actions are beneficial across the board, you have a point (although you would have to enlighten us how his econ policy isn't utter crap). Now if you agree that Chavez's economic policy isn't wise, then your argument rings hollow. Why? Because when the economy does fall, all that "progress" chavez has made will be adios. There will be a backlash in one form or another.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:47 am Post subject:

Sincinnatislink wrote:

Rule of Law strikes me as a very good start...

Huh?

Chavez is just another caudillo.

Rule of law? What are you talking about, Michael Moore? "Rule of law" means whatever the caudillo says it means. Why not, for example, just modify the constitution anytime any of its provisions proves inconvenient...?

Matt_22

Joined: 22 Nov 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:24 am Post subject:

Sincinnatislink wrote:

Venezuela's current civilian government is an enormous step forward from the previous US-backed government. Rule of Law strikes me as a very good start.

LOL

dave's definitely has no shortage of che t-shirt-wearing nutters.

keane

Joined: 09 Jul 2007

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:27 am Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

Sincinnatislink wrote:

Rule of Law strikes me as a very good start...

Why bother with that? Just violate it at will, as Bush does while you all pretend to be "unsupportive" of his actions while refusing to even acknowledge they are illegal and unconstitutional, therefore worthy of impeachment.

I love you, man! Even if you are a partisan. Wink

keane

Joined: 09 Jul 2007

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:35 am Post subject:

stevemcgarrett wrote:

Quote:

McGarrett has made pronunciations against the PA, MCA, and the recent presidential directives?

Did you mean "pronouncements," or possibly "protestations?" Rolling Eyes

Let's go with the former. But do I have to continue the game and point out Pennsylvania would only be preceded by "the" by a five year-old or a non-native speaker? Nah... Let's stay on topic.

I also don't recall you ever responding to a post for which you have no defense.

Five thumbs down, Five-O.

stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:37 am Post subject:

Matt__22 wrote:

Quote:

dave's definitely has no shortage of che t-shirt-wearing nutters.

Another case in point:

Quote:

I love you, man! Even if you are a partisan-Keane

Gopher wrote:

Quote:

Chavez is just another caudillo.

Yep, just another manifestation of machismo but don't tell that to the apologists who are convinced that Castro and Chavez have the best interests of the masses at heart and would realize these aims if only the U.S. would stop meddling.

Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:11 am Post subject:

Matt_22 wrote:

LOL

dave's definitely has no shortage of che t-shirt-wearing nutters.

Indeed. Fresh out of university, and full of piss and vinegar.

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:24 am Post subject:

This thread does a nice job of teasing out the crux of their problem, McGarrett: unable to tolerate any criticism at all directed against anyone but the American govt; and, moreover, such criticism will provoke the crudest form of apologia for people like Chavez. Go figure.

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