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Don Gately
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating
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 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| But yes, Gately has a good point: what about the Iraqi gov't? It is a vital player in this. If it isn't going along with things and in fact being counterproductive, all the US efforts will be for naught. |
Did I miss the part where we addressed this? Because I've yet to hear a good answer on it from anyone.
Sec. Def. Gates and McCain just keep saying military progress has been made, but nobody is denying that. But then when you try to ask them how we're going to motivate the Iraqi parilament to actually legislate, they have nothing. They asked Stephonopolous asked McCain about this at the Iowa debate and the silence was deafening.
I like McCain. I wanted to vote for him. But if all he can say is "We can't afford to lose in Iraq," and he's got no idea how we're going to get them to take responsibility for themselves, then that's just an open-ended commitment and that's what got us in trouble here in the first place.
JRGR, you seem like a well-read guy. If I promise to wiki this caliphate thing can you give me your thoughts on this? Thanks. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: |
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I ditto Tiger Beer's idea about what is actually winning the war? The middle east raised to the ground? Pakistan and Saudi arabia obliterated? Or Bin Laden killled. 'The futility of war' there are rarely victors in war, especially in humanitarian terms.
This is another piece of American propaganda used to convince the population that this was a worthwhile jaunt/genocide in the middle east.
Tenuous links between Iraq and Al-Qaeda are unproven, so no reason for war there. No WMD's another reason dismissed. This war was wrong from the start and the only way to get the american people to think it is worthwhile is by getting a 'legitimate' source to now say things are getting better.
Show us the everyday life of soldiers in Iraq, show us the coffins coming home, show us the pictures of shellshocked soldiers underfire, show us the hostility towards the western invaders and let us make our own minds up whether things are getting better, not some authors who might have a bit of credibility.
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| JRGR, you seem like a well-read guy. |
JRGR, you actually seem like somebody who believes this rubbish churned out by the US propaganda machine and have to believe that things are getting better and that the US is in Iraq for a legitimate reason, so as not to feel responsible for the actions of the biggest rogue, terrorist state in the world. This was a pre-emptive strike that went t*ts up, and the rest of the western world have to suffer through US incompetence. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: |
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"Dome Vans"]
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| I ditto Tiger Beer's idea about what is actually winning the war? The middle east raised to the ground? Pakistan and Saudi arabia obliterated? Or Bin Laden killled. 'The futility of war' there are rarely victors in war, especially in humanitarian terms. |
when the enemy feels dispair and is very scared and being a terrorist is not seen as a good tactic to fight against the US
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This is another piece of American propaganda used to convince the population that this was a worthwhile jaunt/genocide in the middle east. |
conspiracy
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Tenuous links between Iraq and Al-Qaeda are unproven, so no reason for war there. No WMD's another reason dismissed. This war was wrong from the start and the only way to get the american people to think it is worthwhile is by getting a 'legitimate' source to now say things are getting better. |
Saddam never gave up his war. Fact.
Saddam was not in compliance. Fact |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
"Dome Vans"]
| Quote: |
| I ditto Tiger Beer's idea about what is actually winning the war? The middle east raised to the ground? Pakistan and Saudi arabia obliterated? Or Bin Laden killled. 'The futility of war' there are rarely victors in war, especially in humanitarian terms. |
when the enemy feels dispair and is very scared and being a terrorist is not seen as a good tactic to fight against the US
| Quote: |
This is another piece of American propaganda used to convince the population that this was a worthwhile jaunt/genocide in the middle east. |
conspiracy
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Tenuous links between Iraq and Al-Qaeda are unproven, so no reason for war there. No WMD's another reason dismissed. This war was wrong from the start and the only way to get the american people to think it is worthwhile is by getting a 'legitimate' source to now say things are getting better. |
Saddam never gave up his war. Fact.
Saddam was not in compliance. Fact |
Regardless of what you say, you cannot deny the fact that Dome Vans has made some startlingly good points regarding these issues. Certainly, from his posts on this forum, I can see that he is well-read and also carries with him the necessary common sense and logic in order to understand how life and situations work in a more general sense. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| What did you have in mind? |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Changing the strategic situation of the mideast will help bring that about. |
According to you and your sources, that is what the invasion of Iraq was supposed to do.
Keep moving the target, friend. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Look, this notion of who qualifies as a "critic" of the White House's war policy came to a head recently when far too many news outlets falsely characterized Michael O'Hanlon and Ken Pollack as opponents of the war. Their support for Bush's strategy was given greater weight because the media and the GOP establishment told the public they have been war "skeptics." They're not -- O'Hanlon and Pollack supported the invasion, endorsed the so-called surge, and have consistently opposed withdrawal. (Ironically, Jon Stewart, the fake newsman, was one of the few to get this right.) |
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/016769.php |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| keane wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Changing the strategic situation of the mideast will help bring that about. |
According to you and your sources, that is what the invasion of Iraq was supposed to do.
Keep moving the target, friend. |
70,000 trained in Al Qaeda camps during the 1990s before the US invade Iraq.
The main reason for terror is that mideast regimes and elties teach hate and incite violence.
Of course since most mideast regimes are police states like North Korea, they can put an end AQ within their own nations if they decide to do so. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Iraqis agree on secret peace plan
Iraqi Sunni and Shia representatives have agreed on a peace plan during secret talks in Finland.
"Participants committed themselves to work towards a robust framework for a lasting settlement," said a statement issued on Monday by the Crisis Management Initiative, a conflict-prevention group that organised the meeting.
In an agreement released by CMI, the participants "agreed to consult further" on a list of recommendations to begin reconciliation talks, including resolving political disputes through non-violence and democracy.
The recommendations also included the disarming of factions and forming an independent commission to supervise the disarming "in a verifiable manner."
The four-day meeting which ended on Monday brought together 16 delegates from the feuding groups to study lessons learnt from successful peacemaking efforts in South Africa and Northern Ireland.
Key participants
Among those reportedly at the talks were representatives of Shia leader Muqtada al-Sadr; Adnan al-Dulaimi, a leader of the largest Sunni Arab political group; and Humam Hammoudi, the Shia chairman of the Iraqi parliament's foreign affairs committee.
Jeffrey Donaldson, a Northern Ireland legislator, said the "road map" to Iraqi peace included key principles of the British territory's own peace process.
Donaldson and British government officials confirmed that the Northern Ireland delegation included Martin McGuinness, the veteran Irish Republican Army commander now the senior Catholic in Northern Ireland's power-sharing government.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/804E6E8B-FF98-408A-BEAF-9070B60E54DD.htm |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Bush: 'Success' to bring troop cuts
US military tactics in Iraq's al-Anbar province are working and troop levels could be cut if similar "successes" are repeated across the country, the US president has said.
George Bush spoke during a surprise Iraq visit on Monday before a key military report on the increase in American troop levels that is to be presented to the US congress.
The US president told marines at al-Asad air base: "Anbar is a huge province. It was once written off as lost. It is now one of the safest places in Iraq."
Bush said any troop reduction would be based on "a calm assessment by our military commanders on the conditions on the ground" and "made from a position of strength".
It would not be "a nervous reaction by Washington politicians to poll results in the media".
At the air base, Bush also held what he called "good, frank" talks with leaders of Iraq's Shia Muslim, Sunni Arab and Kurdish communities, including Nuri al-Maliki, the prime minister, and Jalal Talabani, the president.
The US president departed from Iraq shortly before 20:00 GMT on Monday, Cynthia Bergman, a White House spokeswoman, said.
'War council'
Bush made the trip primarily to hold a "war council" with senior US and Iraqi officials before a report by General David Petraeus, the US commander in Iraq, on the success of the "surge" in US troop levels.
"You are denying al-Qaeda a safe haven from which to plot and plan and carry out attacks against the United States of America," he told US soldiers who roared their approval.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79DCF9C2-5C83-43C3-8308-168E6B451EFB.htm |
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