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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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 Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: bono is a douchebag |
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http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/17618/
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| At June's Technology Entertainment and Design conference in Tanzania, Andrew Mwenda, a Ugandan journalist and social worker, spoke out against reliance on foreign charity, pointing out that it had never succeeded in reviving an economy anywhere in the world, least of all Africa. He made his points only with difficulty however because throughout the speech he was heckled from the back of the room with shouts of "Bullshit!" and "Bollocks!" The heckler was Bono. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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U2 sucks. They always did.
To the people who bought a U2 album/CD, congratulations. You have given a platform to this mouthy tosser.
Can't stand him. |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
U2 sucks. They always did.
To the people who bought a U2 album/CD, congratulations. You have given a platform to this mouthy tosser.
Can't stand him. |
He's done a lot more for people in this world than you'll ever do. Positive things, that is. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Such as? |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Foreign aid usually just creates more dependency.
Its GREAT to see some african speakers advocating more of a proud, lets lift ourselves out" approach. Desperately what Africa needs. Until about 3 years ago, you only ever heard african leaders speaking with begging bowls. Now you're hearing a few occasional african entrepreneurs who are tired of the cycle of foreign aid.
Bono is a tool.
Stealing the "I'm the most humanitarian rock star" niche from Bob Geldof has enabled someone who is basically not a talented singer, to cling to the limelight for far longer than the deserves |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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By acting as a tool in the promotion of charity to Africa. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| butlerian wrote: |
By acting as a tool in the promotion of charity to Africa. |
And if that charity is one of the primary reasons that Africa is unable to escape poverty then Bono...... |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| butlerian wrote: |
By acting as a tool in the promotion of charity to Africa. |
And if that charity is one of the primary reasons that Africa is unable to escape poverty then Bono...... |
Yes, but these days many charities do not offer the kind of money-based handouts. Instead, they promote small businesses by offering micro-credit etc and improving educational facilities. That can't be a bad thing.
Here's a short segment of part of my Masters thesis, relating to the effects of globalisation in Africa:
The processes of globalisation, such as the development of the Internet and vastly increased trade and integration, are least associated with much of the continent of Africa. This is surprising when you consider the amount of people and states that exist in the region. But they are not immune to the effects of globalisation and certainly, for a variety of reasons, many nation states have had and are having a troubled time. (Laakso et al, 1996) believe that, among other things, �an accelerating process of globalisation, has called into question some of the basic premises of the contemporary nation-state project [and] it is perhaps in Africa, more than in other parts of the world, that the crisis of the nation-state project has been most obvious and overwhelming� (p. 7- .
More specifically, �occurring side by side with the shift to neo-liberal ideas in economic policy making, was the acceleration of the process of economic globalisation which had enormous implications for the management of national economic polices all over the world�As a direct result of [the] deregulation [of financial markets], the volume of financial capital outside the control of national and international monetary authorities increased to such a level that even the governments of the leading Western countries gradually started to lose sovereign control over their own national economic policies, while individual economic actors speculating in stock exchanges and currency markets became important forces driving the global economy� (p.17). Many African nations in the �80s and �90s assumed huge debts and were then subjected to structural adjustment policies provided by the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. Much criticism has been made of such policies (see, for example, Stiglitz, 2002), which tend to increase inequality and, ultimately, leave countries with a bigger debt than they had in the first place.
The result of the neo-liberal agenda being pushed on to Africa was �the deepening social crisis�which led to social unrest�deepening social fragmentation and inequality which, in turn, frustrated the realisation of the economic objectives of the programme� (p. 19). Ethnic tensions within states were multiplied and civil wars are not uncommon. Although in Europe, �Perhaps the most noticeable effect of war�was to cause the state to increase its ability to collect significantly more revenue with greater efficiency and less public resistance� (Herbst, 2003, p.167), this has not been reflected in Africa for a variety of reasons relating to the efficiency and ability of the state to collect taxes. This limits the ability of many nation states in Africa to raise taxes in order to build basic infrastructures that are necessary if they are to compete in a global market. The processes of globalisation, such as the development of the Internet and vastly increased trade and integration, are least associated with much of the continent of Africa. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:01 am Post subject: |
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The World Bank has created a very interesting set of criteria for development measuring and analysis. They call it "credibility of rules". Check it out. I think it goes a long way in explaining what is happening.
When I see "neo-liberal" in your thesis I just can't take it seriously. Firstly, neo-liberal is undefined (and purposefully so, like "social justice", it is kept ambiguous) and to the extent that it is defined Africa is among the most illiberal and ill-neo-liberal place on earth. Africa never liberalized in any meaningful way. Africa is not economically globalised. Africa is not financially globalised. Africa is not culturally globalised. African states have among the highest trade barriers in the world. This is the problem. Africa has been structurally kept out of the most amazing advance in humanity ever recorded.
Discussing African poverty and inequality in the framework of "neo-liberalism" is like describing a football game with the rules of hockey. The two are simply not related.
The aid, when it is state-to-state strengthens the structures of power that keep a boot on the neck of average Africans. When it is micro-credit, white people get all excited but the actual data coming back to us is quite less orgasmic than Bono et al would like us to believe.
For an honest treatment of what prevents development in Africa check out William Easterly's last two books. They are amazing. Also Hernando De Soto. Fukuyama's book about state building is excellent as well, despite his support for the war in Iraq. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Achtung Baby is one of the greatest albums of all time though this isnt enough to make Bono Jesus |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| butlerian wrote: |
By acting as a tool |
And you know all about that, Marco Polo. Still basking in the glow of your new-found Korean celebrity? You and Bono gonna hang out and save the world from itself?
I don't know where you got the idea you are an authority on everything, but it seems clear you live in some kind of weird bubble. You are like John Travolta in that movie "The Boy in the Bubble", or whatever it was called.
Actually, I liked that movie when I saw it when I was a young un' smoking pot on the sofa with my friends. Of course, I wasn't helping to save Africa like you and Bono, but at least I wasn't perpetuating their chronic dependencies. |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| butlerian wrote: |
By acting as a tool |
And you know all about that, Marco Polo. Still basking in the glow of your new-found Korean celebrity? You and Bono gonna hang out and save the world from itself?
I don't know where you got the idea you are an authority on everything, but it seems clear you live in some kind of weird bubble. You are like John Travolta in that movie "The Boy in the Bubble", or whatever it was called.
Actually, I liked that movie when I saw it when I was a young in' smoking pot on the sofa with my friends. Of course, I wasn't helping to save Africa like you and Bono, but at least I wasn't perpetuating their chronic dependencies. |
You're great with insults, but rather more shallow with content. There's nothing wrong with trying to make the world a better place. You don't know that Bono etc are only "perpetuating their chronic dependencies" - many experts continue to debate the best ways to improve the situation in Africa, so don't be so arrogant as to assume that you are right and people like Bono are wrong. There are certain charities these days, such as those which promote education and help communities that have suffered serious "natural" disasters, which genuinely help people to get out of poverty. It's people like you, who just sit on Dave's and criticise others who are trying to make a difference, that are least beneficial to a global society. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:51 am Post subject: |
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I don't like rock stars who spout off about what other people should be doing, then board their jet to fly home to their castle while feeling self-satisfied that they are somehow morally superior.
Know what I mean, Butlerian? |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| butlerian wrote: |
| You're great with insults |
Thanks, B. Honestly, that is one of the nicest things anyone has said to me today. It was a tough Monday.
I'll reciprocate:
I admire your single-mindedness. |
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