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bono is a douchebag
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you two know eachother?
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BJWD wrote:
So, you two know eachother?


Yea there does seem to be alot of animosity for not alot of reason.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naw, we just had it out on a couple of other threads. From my perspective, arguing with him is like shooting fish in a barrel. He doesn't really seem like a bad guy, though.

Sorry to take the thread off topic. We were talking about Bono's sunglasses, right?
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butlerian



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

caniff wrote:
I don't like rock stars who spout off about what other people should be doing, then board their jet to fly home to their castle while feeling self-satisfied that they are somehow morally superior.

Know what I mean, Butlerian?


I agree with that point, and I'm well aware that Geldof and Bono have made millions through publicity. But, still, I don't think that that is their main motive for what they are doing. At least they are trying to make a difference, unlike many other stars who just sit on their millions. I can accept one or two guys making a bit of money if, at the end of the day, it means some lives are saved and some people get a chance at life.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is fine. You like people to look like they give a damn. That isn't a problem in any way.

What can be a problem is when misguided entertainers use their fame to push bad policy. And this is what Bono often does. When this happens, the fact that they care so much results in very real consequences.

I would rather the Bono's of the world sing and the William Easterly's of the world work in development policy. That is what each does best.

Or, would you buy a rock cd from a development economist simply because he is famous?
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butlerian



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BJWD wrote:
That is fine. You like people to look like they give a damn. That isn't a problem in any way.

What can be a problem is when misguided entertainers use their fame to push bad policy. And this is what Bono often does. When this happens, the fact that they care so much results in very real consequences.

I would rather the Bono's of the world sing and the William Easterly's of the world work in development policy. That is what each does best.

Or, would you buy a rock cd from a development economist simply because he is famous?


These days many charities follow development theory and so I don't believe that many donations don't help the people in some way, these days. Things have changed a lot since the days of handouts. Therefore, superstars who highlight the problems in Africa etc are not only increasing awareness and sensitising the minds of the young to the issues, but are also genuinely helping to a certain extent.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard figures of around 10% reaching the targeted recipients, and 90% feeding the 'charitable' organization.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Africa, the charities are referred to by the locals as the "new colonisers". They are run by people, almost always, who are hostile to markets, private property and real development. For them, a school is more important than a factory, because they like the idea of building a school (educating people for the sake of education) more than they like the idea of building a port/road/industrial infrastructure that would give the people are reason to study something other than subsistence farming. In short, they are idealists who essentialise the poor, noble African and like the idea of them staying that way (poverty as a looking glass to humanity before the "fall"). These types of people have no business doing anything other than esl in Korea.

Development is an industry like any other.


Last edited by thepeel on Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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butlerian



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

caniff wrote:
I've heard figures of around 10% reaching the targeted recipients, and 90% feeding the 'charitable' organization.


Yes, that is a major problem, and it's the main reason I don't donate to the majority of charitable organisations. Still, 90% is more the exception than the rule.
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riverboy



Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BJWD, You are making me feel guilty for sponsoring a child. I agree 100 percent that charity is not the sloution to the whole problem, but at the same time, I know that I may be helping one child achieve a better life. Kind of putting your finger in the damn. I'm not Bono, or a major corporate entity. Just one guy.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riverboy wrote:
BJWD, You are making me feel guilty for sponsoring a child. I agree 100 percent that charity is not the sloution to the whole problem, but at the same time, I know that I may be helping one child achieve a better life. Kind of putting your finger in the damn. I'm not Bono, or a major corporate entity. Just one guy.


As I said earlier, it is the state-to-state that is the most problematic. The other large "name brand" charities are a huge problem too.

Your case is a person-person transfer, similar to the micro credit. It is very micro-economic and thus not really of concern. You're doing a good thing on a small scale. The charities influence governments to do bad things on a big scale. A policy scale.

Africa needs FDI, trade and fully free access to our markets. Final answer. The other things are nice too, but ultimately pointless on a macro scale.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
�If someone wants to help you, they shouldn�t do it by destroying the very thing that they�re trying to promote"


- George Odo explains the decision of CARE - one of the world�s biggest charities - to stop administering US food aid for African countries, since it undermines agriculture in those countries. Interviewed in NYT (via The Insider).


http://www.johannorberg.net/
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butlerian



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="BJWD"]
riverboy wrote:
Africa needs FDI, trade and fully free access to our markets. Final answer. The other things are nice too, but ultimately pointless on a macro scale.


That's a highly politically-charged argument. Stiglitz (former leader of the World Bank) has worked directly with many of these issues and doesn't have a lot of positives to say about them. First-hand experience is priceless. You say Africa has high trade tariffs - what choice do they have? Unless the European Union etc with their 'closed' markets open up and allow African goods into their markets at reasonable prices, Africa has nothing to gain by opening their markets and destroying the few local markets that exist there.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that giving Africa fully free access to our markets while letting them protect theirs would be a much better situation than the present situation which has them on a sort of multinational welfare. The international dole, as it were.

Give a man a fish...teach a man to fish...
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what have we learned? Is Bono truly a douchebag, or is he being improperly 'pap'-smeared as the douchebag that he isn't, and never was?
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