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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Location: Incheon
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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And let us not forget Neoconism.
The Government Creates legislation which allows them to spy on your cows and then they invade your barn, confiscate your cows and give one to the bankers and the other to the war profiteers. They be come really confused because there is nothing left for the oil companies, so they trture you untill you give up your friend who has two cows as well and they take them(after throwing him in an illegal prison) give the cows to the oil companies and try to find another farm to invade. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Fascism = the government cooperating hand in glove with industrialists and the military; superpatriotism manipulated to keep the workers in line for the greater glory of the fatherland. The only private property affected was the possessions of the persecuted ethnic minorities.
Communism = government ownership and management of the means of production; internationalist in outlook rather than nationalist. The latter ultimately failed under resurgent Russian and Chinese nationalism. Institutionalized class warfare against ownership of property.
Both were totalitarian and both were repugnant.
There is no point in discussing Libertarianism because it is a fringe movement with only the most minimal influence on any government in the world today, as far as I know. The Women's Christian Temperance Movement has had more impact.
It's telling that Hitler took over a left wing group and kept the old Socialist name. It goes to my original question: Does the Right (then and now) deliberately blur political labels so as to hide their political goals? There is a perfectly good term, Totalitarianism, that serves when it is necessary to refer to both extreme left and right. |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: |
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The attitude of many posters above is much like those who pass a guy on the street, ill and dirty and hungry. They sway and swing away and say, "just another who can't help himself. He had it coming."
A principle which is the pit and ruin of "civil"ization. That people don't crawl out of their cave but rather would prefer staying there because they have less lice than the other guy - is a concept that leaves me numb.
So many only through their own weak child inside, their "in"security, perpetuate hate and keep climbing up their Walter Mitty made molehills triumphantly.
DD |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Did you post that on the wrong thread? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
There is no point in discussing Libertarianism because it is a fringe movement with only the most minimal influence on any government in the world today, as far as I know. The Women's Christian Temperance Movement has had more impact.
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You're conflating the American political party known as the Libertarian Party with the broader movement that resides (uncomfortably these days) to the right of the spectrum.
Libertarian
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| One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state |
Fringe movement???? |
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butlerian

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Location: Korea
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
The attitude of many posters above is much like those who pass a guy on the street, ill and dirty and hungry. They sway and swing away and say, "just another who can't help himself. He had it coming."
A principle which is the pit and ruin of "civil"ization. That people don't crawl out of their cave but rather would prefer staying there because they have less lice than the other guy - is a concept that leaves me numb.
So many only through their own weak child inside, their "in"security, perpetuate hate and keep climbing up their Walter Mitty made molehills triumphantly.
DD |
Nicely put. |
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Libertarian
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| One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state |
Fringe movement???? |
Looks like Libertarians truly believe what most RepUGLYcans only talk about ... yes or no?
Last edited by The Bobster on Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Ddeubel wrote:
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| is a concept that leaves me numb. |
That would certainly explain your mind-numbing posts. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Libertarian
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| One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state |
Fringe movement???? |
Looks like Libertarins truly believe what most ReUGLYcans only talk about ... yes or no? |
Yup. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Libertarian
| Quote: |
| One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state |
Fringe movement???? |
Looks like Libertarins truly believe what most ReUGLYcans only talk about ... yes or no? |
Yup. |
Many libertarians are embedded in the Republican Party right now. But its unlikely they'll show up to vote GOP in the general election. If Hillary becomes President, her Clintonian economic policies might convert some of the libertarians, if they can get over their hatred of the Democratic brand-name. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| ...my original question: Does the Right (then and now) deliberately blur political labels so as to hide their political goals? |
Who is "the right?" A crude stereotype for all of us who stand to the right of you? Or merely the far right?
In any case, in my experience any ideologue, left or right, deliberately blurs political labels so as to hide their goals. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| To illustrate their view that the one-dimensional view of politics is insufficient to describe the myriad political philosophies held by the public, Libertarians introduced the Nolan chart to communicate their belief that politics is at least two-dimensional. |
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| The Libertarian Party was formed in the home of David Nolan on December 11, 1971, |
Does anyone know if the 'Nolan' mentioned in the two Wiki quotes is the same person? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Libertarian
| Quote: |
| One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state |
Fringe movement???? |
Looks like Libertarins truly believe what most ReUGLYcans only talk about ... yes or no? |
Yup. |
Many libertarians are embedded in the Republican Party right now. But its unlikely they'll show up to vote GOP in the general election. If Hillary becomes President, her Clintonian economic policies might convert some of the libertarians, if they can get over their hatred of the Democratic brand-name. |
Milton said he was a Republican rather than Libertarian (in terms of party membership) as that was where he was "most useful". Then, I'm sure it was the case.
Yesterday in the Straits Times (behind sub wall) there was an excellent article about how Neo-cons were able to talk the talk to all aspects of the repubs, libs included. I agree. They railed against the state at home and abroad and then expanded it in both. My opinion is that the libertarian-republican alliance is dead as dead. Dead. Reason magazine had a series of good articles about this as well. It will take free-market types decades to forgive the Christians, mouth breathing nationalists and warmongers etc for the 8 years of Bush.
Libertarians are likely to get louder and more relevant in the coming years. The state has overextended itself in many ways that all Americans don't like and the most consistent defender against this has been the libertarians. They feel energized and needed. They are becoming increasingly active in defending civil liberties (no-knock home invasions, drug law abuses and such). Radly Balko is one such dude who is fighting the good fight on a very microlevel.
That said, Ron Paul will not win. I've followed the dude for years and years now. I've watched his videos and read his articles and been amazing that such a man was elected so many times. I wish he would win. He is nutz on abortion though.
Best outcome is that he raises a bunch of money, runs as a Libertarian or indy and gets into the Presidential debates. He can influence the conversation in that way. Two pygmy's arguing about who to invade, and Ron Paul asserting that the US shouldn't invade anybody, anytime. |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: |
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On the other hand is...... my other hand of course.
The Nationalist SOCIALIST party of Germany - Nazi.
"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist,
liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human
race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and
those who have no such desire." - {R.A.H.}
...with liberty and justice for all. |
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