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		Zulu
 
 
  Joined: 28 Apr 2006
 
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:19 am    Post subject:  | 
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	  | Billy Pilgrim wrote: | 
	 
	
	  | Also, I hope everyone here would stop and help out anyone in obvious trouble and not check to see first whether they are Korean or foreign. | 
	 
 
 
 
Good point as well. | 
			 
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		lastat06513
 
 
  Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject:  | 
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				I don't think it is a problem just in Korea, but in many places western foreigners work and live...
 
You don't blame the individual, but the entire society in which they came from for the lack of civic assistance.
 
Most people come to these countries with "I want the (insert country's name here) experience the way I think of it, damn everyone else"
 
So most of us are wrapped up in our own little world to care if the person next to us is truly suffering.
 
 
I always made it a point to help out if I could, not because I was asking for their friendship or anything else in return, but because it was the right thing to do.............many people just don't get it, especially if they either have lived in a certain place for a long time or just intend on spending a year there....and remember the person you help now might return the favor in other ways later.... | 
			 
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		Captain Corea
 
  
  Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Please People Help Each Other Out | 
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	  | GoldMember wrote: | 
	 
	
	  Here in Korea, it doesn't matter if you are a teacher, engineer, or ddd worker, the fact is we all have a common bond.
 
We are all outsiders in a very Xenophobic country.
 
Constantly I read posts whereby someone will say they got ripped off, physically assulted, discriminated by the police judges etc, and there will always be some dude who does the, well it's your fault, shouldn't have signed, shouldn't have stood up for your rights etc garbage.
 
Let's be more supportive of the Fillipinos, the Russians, and everyone who is an outsider in this country.
 
Whenever a group tries to take a stand, for better work and conditions, there is always one *hole, who will take the side of the Koreans, thereby sabotaging the whole effort.
 
Think about it people. If a Korean person were to smack you in the head in the streets, wouldn't half a dozen Korean people swear on their Mothers' grave that you were the one who started it.
 
We live in a Xenophobic environment so it is very important to be supportive of one another. Don't let the exploiters, and racists, divide and conquer. | 
	 
 
 
 
Yes, that's right. You got it! White Power!!
 
 
Oh, wait, you mentioned 3D workers and such... how about 외국인 파워!!!
 
 
Sorry man, but just because someone is not from this country does not mean that they are the same as me. I'll take each case as it comes and make my own decision then.
 
 
You can keep your collective bargaining to yourself. | 
			 
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		Imbroglio
 
  
  Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: Behind the wheel of a large automobile
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				| I think that the smart people who come to Korea have just figured out how to play both sides against the middle. | 
			 
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		Cheonmunka
 
  
  Joined: 04 Jun 2004
 
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:47 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				Typhoon, how (and why) did this drunk guy want to kill your daughter?
 
 
Wouldn't you have almost killed him? Do you want us to get him? 
 
Let's get him. Seriously. | 
			 
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		bellum99
 
  
  Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: don't need to know
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | Typhoon wrote: | 
	 
	
	  | I wasn't lucky.  Most people are good and decent throughout the world.  You see it when push comes to shove.  I saw it when the drunk guy almost killed my daughter.  Koreans are a strange bunch, don't get me wrong.  But, Koreans will do the right thing man up when they are facing a serious situation (in my experience).  You will get a few bad apples in any society (I had a group of people watch as I had it out with bus driver who tried to stop my mom from hugging her granddaughter good bye for the next two years), but for the most part there are more decent people here than not.  Now please don't make me defend Koreans anymore, I don't think I can take it. | 
	 
 
 
 
It is obvious that we wouldn't have vans full of old people lying to the police back home.  Your story is a complete justification of every bad thing said about Koreans.  You were LUCKY that one person had a little tiny bit of honesty in his almost empty soul or else you could have been in serious trouble.  Pull your head out of the sand and look around.  See people for who they really are. | 
			 
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		ceesgetdegrees
 
 
  Joined: 12 Jul 2007
 
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Please People Help Each Other Out | 
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	  | Zulu wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
	  | ceesgetdegrees wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
	  | GoldMember wrote: | 
	 
	
	  Here in Korea, it doesn't matter if you are a teacher, engineer, or ddd worker, the fact is we all have a common bond.
 
We are all outsiders in a very Xenophobic country.
 
Constantly I read posts whereby someone will say they got ripped off, physically assulted, discriminated by the police judges etc, and there will always be some dude who does the, well it's your fault, shouldn't have signed, shouldn't have stood up for your rights etc garbage.
 
Let's be more supportive of the Fillipinos, the Russians, and everyone who is an outsider in this country.
 
Whenever a group tries to take a stand, for better work and conditions, there is always one *hole, who will take the side of the Koreans, thereby sabotaging the whole effort.
 
Think about it people. If a Korean person were to smack you in the head in the streets, wouldn't half a dozen Korean people swear on their Mothers' grave that you were the one who started it.
 
We live in a Xenophobic environment so it is very important to be supportive of one another. Don't let the exploiters, and racists, divide and conquer. | 
	 
 
 
 
Piss off hippie. | 
	 
 
 
 
Ceesgetdegrees, can I have a blueprint of your brain? I'm building a f*ckwit at home    | 
	 
 
 
 
 
 
Hahahaha...wow, the wit you exude, you have to work on it or does it come natural like? How about i give you a blueprint of my foot kicking your face? | 
			 
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		GoldMember
 
 
  Joined: 24 Oct 2006
 
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				It's me again!
 
No, it's not about white power, and maybe my original post is "whitey" xenophobic. but
 
Think of it this way:
 
If you were a black American in Alabama in the 1950's, and you went to court with an all white Jury, would you get a fair trial. NO WAY!
 
 
Now the situation here may not be as extreme but it is similar, in that you won't get fair treatment. EVERY SINGLE KOREAN has had a racist, brainwashing education, even the UN says this (in a diplomatic manner).
 
Am I saying Koreans are bad because of this, no I'm saying this is a fact and in your every day dealings here you have to understand this.
 
 
In the example of the car accident. The old people had the phone number of the witnesess. Korean police MUST not give out any information about witnesses. In this case they did. I'll let you speculate why.
 
 
Most people here come from an Anglo Saxon culture with the ideology of rule of law, and fair play. That is great but Duuuhh, that doesn't apply here.
 
 
If your fighting by the Marquis of Queensbury rules, and the other guy has weapons, your gonna get your butt whipped.
 
 
Let me say again, don't disparage the ddd workers, or the teacher who gets assaulted, ripped off, with -"we'll you shouldn't have......"
 
We are all in the same boat, and how about being more supportive of each other! I don't understand, it's a simple message! | 
			 
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		TheUrbanMyth
 
 
  Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:37 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: | 
	 
	
	  The prevailing ethic here: look out for Number One.  
 
 
Sounds OK to me, so long as you are consistent.
 
 
So, being consistent, none of you would care one way or the other if you discovered that an expat was teaching privates on the side.  Right, guys?
 
 
If you want to mind your own business, then you are more than welcome. | 
	 
 
 
 
Why do you do this?  I've called you on this a couple of times before.  Use examples which are RELEVANT.  Let me explain.  If someone was looking for Number One, he would report this guy..and take his privates.   Looking out for Number One does not necessarily mean minding your own business...in fact it often means meddling in the business of other people. | 
			 
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		TheUrbanMyth
 
 
  Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | GoldMember wrote: | 
	 
	
	  It's me again!
 
No, it's not about white power, and maybe my original post is "whitey" xenophobic. but
 
Think of it this way:
 
If you were a black American in Alabama in the 1950's, and you went to court with an all white Jury, would you get a fair trial. NO WAY!
 
 
Now the situation here may not be as extreme but it is similar, in that you won't get fair treatment. EVERY SINGLE KOREAN has had a racist, brainwashing education, ! | 
	 
 
 
 
That is the most xenophobic, moronic statement I have seen on this site yet.  Most posters even when they whine about Korea and Koreans, have the sense to say that they are not referring to all Koreans.  
 
 
You do know that some posters are married to Koreans right?
 
 
You do know that some posters have children with these Koreans right?
 
 
You do know that some posters have close Korean friends right?
 
 
You do know that some posters have family members who have married a Korean right?
 
 
 
Take your racist BS elsewhere. | 
			 
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		Captain Corea
 
  
  Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  | TheUrbanMyth wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
	  | GoldMember wrote: | 
	 
	
	  It's me again!
 
No, it's not about white power, and maybe my original post is "whitey" xenophobic. but
 
Think of it this way:
 
If you were a black American in Alabama in the 1950's, and you went to court with an all white Jury, would you get a fair trial. NO WAY!
 
 
Now the situation here may not be as extreme but it is similar, in that you won't get fair treatment. EVERY SINGLE KOREAN has had a racist, brainwashing education, ! | 
	 
 
 
 
That is the most xenophobic, moronic statement I have seen on this site yet.  Most posters even when they whine about Korea and Koreans, have the sense to say that they are not referring to all Koreans.  
 
 
You do know that some posters are married to Koreans right?
 
 
You do know that some posters have children with these Koreans right?
 
 
You do know that some posters have close Korean friends right?
 
 
You do know that some posters have family members who have married a Korean right?
 
 
 
Take your racist BS elsewhere. | 
	 
 
 
 
I was just about to post something similar - but ya beat m to it.
 
 
This guy is just over the top. | 
			 
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		GoldMember
 
 
  Joined: 24 Oct 2006
 
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				Didn't say Koreans are racist, I said that they have been subjected to a Racist education, and racism in the media. (Brainwashing)
 
Do some research you will find that the education system in Korea was established on a model that was a copy of what the Nazis were doing.
 
This is one of the reasons why so many people here want their kids to get an overseas education.
 
This country was previously a dictatorship for a long time. Dictatorships, use the education system and media to brainwash, and mould people's minds, for their own benefit. A lot of the vestiges of that period still remain.
 
This is my logical arguement. Your arguement is to throw around slurs.
 
 
All I'm saying is, be aware of the background here, and what you are dealing with. All that Uri Nara education, and media reporting does in general make many people biased. You'd have to be foolish not to recognize that.
 
 
Yes you are right, I should not have said all Koreans, some Koreans were not educated in Korea. | 
			 
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		Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
 
 
  Joined: 04 Nov 2003
 
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Please People Help Each Other Out | 
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	  | Captain Corea wrote: | 
	 
	
	  
 
	  | GoldMember wrote: | 
	 
	
	  Here in Korea, it doesn't matter if you are a teacher, engineer, or ddd worker, the fact is we all have a common bond.
 
We are all outsiders in a very Xenophobic country.
 
Constantly I read posts whereby someone will say they got ripped off, physically assulted, discriminated by the police judges etc, and there will always be some dude who does the, well it's your fault, shouldn't have signed, shouldn't have stood up for your rights etc garbage.
 
Let's be more supportive of the Fillipinos, the Russians, and everyone who is an outsider in this country.
 
Whenever a group tries to take a stand, for better work and conditions, there is always one *hole, who will take the side of the Koreans, thereby sabotaging the whole effort.
 
Think about it people. If a Korean person were to smack you in the head in the streets, wouldn't half a dozen Korean people swear on their Mothers' grave that you were the one who started it.
 
We live in a Xenophobic environment so it is very important to be supportive of one another. Don't let the exploiters, and racists, divide and conquer. | 
	 
 
 
 
Yes, that's right. You got it! White Power!!
 
 
Oh, wait, you mentioned 3D workers and such... how about 외국인 파워!!!
 
 
Sorry man, but just because someone is not from this country does not mean that they are the same as me. I'll take each case as it comes and make my own decision then.
 
 
You can keep your collective bargaining to yourself. | 
	 
 
 
 
You know, teaching privates doesn't seem like such a bad idea right now.  After all, other expats are simply going to turn a blind eye and mind their own business.  Aren't they?
 
 
Come to think of it, writing and performing satirical plays doesn't sound too bad, either.  It's not as if the likes of you are going to care enough to blow the whistle. | 
			 
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		dmbfan
 
  
  Joined: 09 Mar 2006
 
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				my bad.
  Last edited by dmbfan on Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total | 
			 
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		dmbfan
 
  
  Joined: 09 Mar 2006
 
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				 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject:  | 
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	  Racism in hagwon: 'Business is business'
 
	
 
	
 
 
When Anh Marshall graduated with an anthropology degree from one of America's top 20 schools, she said that after studying other cultures, she wanted to experience one first hand. Being a native English speaker, young, bright, and having graduated from a top tier American university, she thought that she was more than qualified for a job teaching English in Korea.
 
 
But Ms. Marshall explained that before she even entered the door of a Korean hagwon, she was confronted with one of the industry's chilling truths: unbridled racism.
 
 
"I had a bad experience before I came to Korea. I sent my resume and picture to a recruiting agency ... the woman told me that she really liked my personality, but it might be difficult for them to find a job for me because their schools preferred women with blonde hair and blue eyes. My ethnicity could be a problem.
 
 
"After (the experience with that agency) was over, I had to seriously rethink whether or not I wanted to live in a country where racism existed so blatantly."
 
 
The blatant racism that Ms. Marshall is referring to is also readily found on some of the country's most popular job websites for English teachers. Seeking "white blond native speaker," read an ad placed by Shin Ji Young of the Esther Native Language Institute. "White person only," read another posted by a recruiter who went by the name Mike Anderson. Still another repeated the common line: seeking "young white person."
 
 
"These job postings read as if they were taken from the segregation chapter of an American history textbook, but are largely the product of an unregulated private education industry in Korea, where school owners regularly flaunt the rule of law in order to maximize profits," said a university instructor in Seoul. "Whether that means not paying teachers salaries, pensions, or their health care, some hagwon directors have even resorted to placing race specific ads for teachers."
 
 
Shin Ji Young, who placed the ad asking for a "white blond native speaker," immediately removed it after she was contacted by The Korea Herald. In a telephone interview she repeated the stance of many in the hagwon industry, that it is her customers, the children's parents, who demand white teachers. She explained that she is not racist; that she is just doing what she thinks is best for her business.
 
 
"Many children want to study with white people because black people are a little bit scary for our students ... They can see white people everywhere but they cannot see black people often."
 
 
Shin, who did not want to be quoted out of context, sent an e mail to The Korea Herald to clear up some of her telephone statements.
 
 
"I don't understand why I have to answer (to this issue) this time, but on the other hand, some foreigners don't understand the ad."
 
 
She explained that when she originally opened the school, she had employed one foreign teacher, a Filipino. She went on, claiming that whenever parents went to her school and saw the non white Filipino teacher, they simply turned around and left. Even though she admitted that some parents told her their children's teachers were black, she came to the conclusion that "people in Korea prefer native white (English) speakers ... When I tried to advertise again I wrote 'white or blond,' I had to meet many black people even though I did not want those teachers. I wasted my time interviewing them.
 
 
"I am not a racist person. I learned English from black people. So I don't care who works here, even if they are Filipino. But business is business. Business makes me choose my teachers."
 
 
Mike Anderson, who admitted to placing the "white person only" advertisement in a telephone interview, also immediately removed his ad after being contacted by The Korea Herald. He repeated Shin's argument that the source of the racism does not lie on the supply side of the English school industry, but on the demand side.
 
 
"Some of the moms were not satisfied with the foreign teachers. Frankly, that is why I had to place such an ad. But I made a big mistake and I am sorry," he said.
 
 
One of the main problems the country faces regarding racial discrimination, says Susan Kim, who works with the Migrants and Human Rights Team of the National Human Rights Commission of Korea, is that since it is still not illegal to discriminate, those who do commit discrimination do not face any real punishments.
 
 
"The National Human Rights Commission Act is not enough because it does not clearly prohibit discrimination ... (The current) law does not make discrimination illegal."
 
 
The way the National Human Rights Commission of Korea works is that after a complaint is filed by someone who claims to have been discriminated against, the commission launches an investigation. The commission then seeks a mutual resolution and suggest an outcome that both parties may accept.
 
 
"We would then recommend the party correct policies and sometimes provide compensation ... (but) we do not have binding power. Some say it is a problem and it has to be improved."
 
 
The U.N. Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination agreed that more effective legislation needs to be passed in Korea in a report released last Friday. It recommended that "the government adopt further measures, including legislation, to prohibit all forms of discrimination."
 
 
The U.N. committee was also concerned that foreigners living in Korea do not share equal legal rights of Koreans. "The committee remained concerned that, strictly in accordance of article 10 of the Constitution, only (Korean) citizens were equal before the law and were entitled to exercise the rights set out in its Chapter II."
 
 
Kim from the National Human Rights Commission of Korea, said that the commission has been trying to get laws passed in the National Assembly, but that efforts so far have been unsuccessful. "We have recommended that the government adopt an antidiscrimination act," she said.
 
 
She said that it is common knowledge that all kinds of discrimination exist at private schools. But she said that there is nothing the commission can do until a complaint is filed. "By practice we know that there is discrimination at hagwon. One or two cases can be an example for the whole country. Hagwon teachers have a vulnerable status ... but there can only be improvements if people file complaints with our commission ... It is easy to file a complaint, just dial 1331."
 
 
Anh Marshall, meanwhile, did eventually find a job in Korea that did not count the color of her skin as a disqualification. She says that since her initial encounter with the recruiter, she has had a good experience here.
 
 
After viewing the ads, she said it is sad that schools do not stand up to the kind of parents who would pull their children out of schools because of black teachers. "If all schools refused to back down on this matter, parents would have to change their minds. Students will never get over their fear if they are not taught by adults that they have nothing to be afraid of. But I guess money is more important than moral character for those schools.
 
 
"The ads sound like something you might have seen in segregated America many years ago ... Americans have worked hard to overcome racism and prejudice, so seeing that kind of discrimination in Asia brings up a lot of bad feelings.
 
 
"Someone's skin color has nothing to do with how well they teach."
 
 
By Matthew Lamers
 
 
([email protected])
 
 
 
 
2007.08.22 | 
	 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Who was it that said the racist attitude and xenophobia attitudes were overestimated?
 
 
 
O.P....you are right.  There should be a tighter bond amongst the minority.  After all, Koreans (just one example) in an environment that is not of their native country, tend to stick together and support each other.  Why can't people do that here?  Why do we see the little shites that "can't help themselves", as the O.P. pointed out?  Why do people keep shunning, and putting down the idea of a teachers union?  Really, if the majority of teachers got into it, it would not matter if it is legal or not.
 
 
Yes, you guys are all in it together.  Just because you are sitting pretty now, does not mean you will be tomorrow.  You are not Korean, and at the end of the day, you do not matter to these people..........95% of the time..
 
 
Korea IS a racist country.
 
Koreans ARE xenophobic.
 
Teachers in Korea DO face discrimination.
 
Korea DOES have its horrible reputation for credible reason(s).
 
 
Some people, very few actually, do make it work. Some do end up in a situation that is good, and provides support, and confidence. But, it is definitely NOT the majority...................it...is...not...the...majority.
 
 
So..........as Mr. Springer would say.............
 
 
 
"Take care of yourselves.........and each other".
 
 
 
dmbfan | 
			 
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