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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Have you done the points test thing for Australia? It's available online.
I am just a few points under 'cos I haven't worked in my profession recently.
An Ozzy mate says it doesn't matter if you're from the UK they'll let you in no problem? |
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bonanzabucks
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm Canadian and I left Canada. I'd never move back there again for a variety of reasons. I've never been to Australia, so I can't comment on that country. Though I've heard nothing but good things about that place and would love to move there.
Now, about Canada...
First off, the job situation there is not good for professionals. Fresh Prince nailed it. Actually, I was just speaking with a Canadian friend about this today. He lives in Dubai now and was visiting NY. He was complaining how Canadian employers only respect manual labor and not intellectual labor. And if the job situation in Canada was that great, then why are there so many of them teaching ESL overseas?
Also, like Fresh Prince said, the job market is pretty good for the trades, but not professionals. The best job market is in Alberta, but the quality and pay for the jobs there is not good, unless you work on the oil fields way up North.
Furthermore, housing costs are astronomical up there now. In Alberta (my home province), it's insane. Edmonton, which is a large city in the middle of nowhere is outrageous. Calgary is even worse. My friend just got a job in Camrose, which is about an hour South of Edmonton. It's only 15,000 people, but the starting costs for a small house there are Can$250K. Outrageous!
Taxes are really high, as someone else mentioned.
The cold weather sucks.
"Multiculturalism" is overrated and doesn't really lead to ethnic harmony. Canadians criticize racial tensions in the US all the time, but racial harmony isn't so wonderful up North. Ethnic groups tend to stick to themselves, especially in Vancouver and Toronto. It's getting that way in Edmonton and Calgary too. It's leading to a lot more tension. Also, because it's so easy to immigrate to Canada, many newcomers just don't feel "Canadian" or part of society. Not that the majority of the population reject them (hardly the case and I think Canada is the Western country that goes most out of it's way to make foreigners feel most welcome), but that foreigners don't feel like there is a society to really contribute to. They don't really respect the native culture much and feel closer to their countries of origin. Also, I think official government policy encourages ethnic groups to stick together rather than blend with the rest of society. And remember the Israel-Lebanese war last summer? There were more "Canadians" evacuated from there than any other nationality. Almost all of them lived there permanently. That says a lot. Canadians of convenience. Also a big reason why Canada had a huge influx of Hong Kongers in the early 90's...just for convenience.
Canada is a country that doesn't know how to define itself. From what I see, Canada now tries to pass itself off as "not American" which is hardly an identity. This self-definition seems to change every few years. Before it was "multiculturalism".
Because of the above, anti-Americanism is pretty bad, especially in Quebec. It gets annoying and really doesn't serve much purpose.
And for the much touted healthcare system. It's not that great. I'm not comparing it to the system here in the States; save that for another thread. But compared to what you'd get in Europe, it sucks. Waiting lists are long and hospitals are showing signs of age. I've heard Australia's system is much better and more efficient.
Also, most jobs only give two weeks vacation. I heard it's at least four weeks in Oz.
And as far as Canadians being "nicer". Every country has "nice" people. I've met a lot of assholes up there too. Honestly, the nicest people I've ever met, or at least the ones who seemed most genuine, were from Oz.
Now, like I said before, I can't comment much on Oz. But from what I heard, compared to Canada, the tax rate is pretty similar. Except in Oz, the highest rate starts at a much higher income than it does in Canada. Also, I heard (and this was from this Australian girl I met in Canada) that Australia has a good job market for white-collar professionals. Canada's is better for blue-collar.
Not saying that Canada is an awful place. But you should know it's not a utopian paradise a lot of people like to claim it is and that for some very important factors (i.e. JOBS), it's really not a good place.
I'd like to know more about Australia, so maybe someone from there can post some info on it like a lot did on Canada. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: Australia vs Canada |
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happeningthang wrote:
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| The vacation time is a stock standard 2 weeks for most jobs |
Do you have a link for that? I'm Australian, & always got 4 weeks annual leave (vacation) in every job I ever worked in.
Perth: 40c hot, dry, summers & a bit remote, nice beaches nearby
Sydney: Expensive & congested
Melbourne: a great city, & def worth considering
Adelaide: Boring, forget it
Hobart: Smallish, but nice
Brisbane: Summers can be hot, but most homes & offices have air con. Worth considering. Close to the Gold Coast & Sunshine Coast beaches
Darwin: too remote
Canberra: smallish & subalpine in winter. Cliquish residents
Newcastle: Good beaches & not as crowded as Sydney.
Vancouver or Victoria in BC would be my pick in Canada. The other cities are just too damned cold in winter. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| You almost had me on Australia until the multiculturalism thingy. While there are certainly racists in Canada, it seems to me Australia has elected out 'n' out anti-immigrant politicians. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:02 am Post subject: Australia or Canada |
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| The Australian elections are sometime in the next few months, & opinion polls are all pointing to a change of government from Howard to Rudd, (who can only be an improvement) & hopefully, he'll reinstate a successful, egalitarian, multicultural society. |
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congee
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| bonanzabucks wrote: |
And if the job situation in Canada was that great, then why are there so many of them teaching ESL overseas?
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Probably because the majority of Canadians teaching ESL in Korea only have a standard liberal arts degree which doesn't qualify them for anything. I doubt they would even be able to teach ESL in Canada with just a BA.
So the only definite conclusion we can draw from the high number of Canadians teaching ESL in Korea is that if you graduate with a liberal arts degree, have no additional qualifications, don't enter a professional program or grad school, have no experience or marketable skills, or come from the maritimes, you'll find it tough to get a good job in Canada.
Besides I was reading an article in the Globe the other day about how the unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in 35 years. The economy is booming, especially in the provinces were the OP would likely settle: BC, Alberta, Ontario.
Isolation is a factor the OP should consider with regards to Australia. It's in the middle of nowhere. I lived in New Zealand for a couple of years and absolutely loved it, fantastic place. The drawback was the 30 hr flight to visit family and friends. Some expats like the isolation down there though. |
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bonanzabucks
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| congee wrote: |
| bonanzabucks wrote: |
And if the job situation in Canada was that great, then why are there so many of them teaching ESL overseas?
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Probably because the majority of Canadians teaching ESL in Korea only have a standard liberal arts degree which doesn't qualify them for anything. I doubt they would even be able to teach ESL in Canada with just a BA.
So the only definite conclusion we can draw from the high number of Canadians teaching ESL in Korea is that if you graduate with a liberal arts degree, have no additional qualifications, don't enter a professional program or grad school, have no experience or marketable skills, or come from the maritimes, you'll find it tough to get a good job in Canada.
Besides I was reading an article in the Globe the other day about how the unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in 35 years. The economy is booming, especially in the provinces were the OP would likely settle: BC, Alberta, Ontario.
Isolation is a factor the OP should consider with regards to Australia. It's in the middle of nowhere. I lived in New Zealand for a couple of years and absolutely loved it, fantastic place. The drawback was the 30 hr flight to visit family and friends. Some expats like the isolation down there though. |
You should check out the North American forums on this site. There are lots of posts on ESL jobs in Canada. First off, there aren't that many of them. Secondly, the few that exist pay very little. And finally, the qualifications for these jobs are really high. You'd think that cities like Toronto or Vancouver would have a huge demand for these jobs based on the number of immigrants who settle there each year, but no.
As for the "booming" job situation in Alberta, that's my home province. I moved back there three years ago due to family issues and to check out the "booming economy. I thought with my work experience, I'd get a decent job there for sure. Nope. I worked at call centers and other temp admin jobs for a year and a half. I got sick of it and left. My family still remains there. My brother has a computer science degree and he's working two jobs because neither one pays that great -- one as a programmer and the other at Best Buy. Oddly enough, he says Best Buy is a better place to work, but anyways...
But yeah, I read all the time about "full employment" in Alberta and how there is too much demand for workers. Most of the jobs out there, especially in Edmonton, are not that great -- call centers, admin, etc. It's easy to find a job, but very, very difficult to find a good one. Like I said, there is a huge demand for trades and people to go up North to Ft. McMurray or Cold Lake. If you can stand it up there, you can make good money. But I know a lot of people back in Edmonton with more than a liberal arts degree who aren't really doing much. Some of them even have a Masters and have better jobs, but they don't make a whole lot of money.
Congee: where in Canada are you from? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bonanzabucks wrote: |
| It's easy to find a job, but very, very difficult to find a good one. |
Unfortunately you do have to start at the bottom and make many of your own opportunities and learn new skills to move up. Reality rarely changes. |
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squat toilet
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Having recently spent almost a month in Melbourne for business, I gotta say, I could easily see myself picking up shop and living there. Trendy, almost European vibe about the city (without the pretentiousness), amazing food, mind blowingly friendly and cool people, incredible music scene, liberal views on (and easy accessibility to) recreational drugs...the list goes on and on.
Without sounding like too much of a homo, I absolutely fell in love with the city. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2154249,00.html
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Record numbers of Britons are leaving the country in search of a sunnier life abroad, the latest official population figures show.
Nearly 200,000 British-born citizens moved overseas last year, mostly to Australia, Spain and France - the highest number since current records began in 1991, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said. In total 385,000 people quit the UK, as the trend was accelerated by a rise in foreigners returning to their home countries.
Figures suggest that British people who move abroad are looking for two things: the sun and other Brits to share it with. But increasingly we are also becoming a nation of economic migrants, seeking a better job abroad.
Stephen Evans, chief economist at the Social Market Foundation, said: "We're living in an increasingly integrated world - it is easier and easier for people to move here and for us to move abroad. I don't know whether TV programmes about moving abroad fuel the rise, or whether they reflect the trend, but they certainly raise the visibility."
The latest statistics reveal that Australia is the biggest draw with 71,000 Britons emigrating there in 2004 and 2005. A further 58,000 moved to Spain and 42,000 to France - the countries which already have some of the highest expat populations.
Dean Morgan, of the website workpermit.com, said the bad summer weather had led to a large number of inquiries about emigration. "Normally in July and August time it's quite quiet, but this year we've been inundated," he said.
"Perception of crime is another of the main reasons for people wanting to leave. Also, people are worried about their children and they worry about their jobs and their future here and possibly the economy as well."
The annual demographic report reveals that in the year to mid-2006 the overall population grew by 350,000 to 60,587,000. A mini baby-boom, people living longer and a net increase in immigration to the UK fuelled the rise.
Ageing
The figures confirm fears about an increasingly ageing population. The number of older people in Britain is increasing at a faster rate than any other age group. There was a 6% rise in the over-85s, boosting the average age of a Briton to 39 compared with 34 in 1971.
But the findings also demonstrate the impact immigration is having. A quarter of British babies are now born to a foreign parent and in some local areas in London, Oxford and Essex the population has grown by up to 14% in five years, largely as a result of immigration.
"We have figures for the contribution of mothers and fathers born abroad and that has risen slightly from under 20% in 2001 to slightly over 25% now," an ONS spokesman said. "That reflects the cumulative effect of immigration over the last 40 years."
Experts believe that without immigration to the UK the population could go into decline, shrinking the working age population and compounding the problem of how to support an ageing society.
Peter Goldblatt, who is co-director of the ONS centre for demography, said the figures illustrated that the UK had an increasingly transient population.
"There is a far greater flow of people in and out of the country. Without more people coming to the UK we would have a smaller and possible even falling population. With a large rise in the number of over-85s we need more people of working ages to support them," he said.
"An ageing population requires more care, putting stress on the NHS which itself relies heavily on immigrant workers."
Immigrants
In England and Wales there were five local authorities which saw their population increase by 11% or more in the five years since 2001... Westminster and Camden in London, South Northamptonshire, Forest Heath in Suffolk and Rutland.
Stephen Evans, chief economist at the thinktank the Social Market Foundation, said: "There have been quite substantial increases in areas of the country, it's bound to change the character of certain areas. But it has always been like this, we are a nation of immigrants."
The new figures suggest that a significant amount of out-migration is among people returning to the countries they were born in - it includes the first evidence that the recent boom in immigration from eastern Europe is not permanent. Some 16,000 people from the eastern European states, including Poland, Slovakia and Estonia, left the UK last year after living here for more than a year. The previous year only 3,000 eastern Europeans left.
By mid 2006 England had a population of 50,762,900, Scotland 5,116,900, Wales 2,965,900 and Northern Ireland 1,741,600.
The figures were called into question by London councils, who said that they were flawed because they did not include people who spend less than a year in residence.
Merrick Cockell, chairman of London Councils, said: "It is absolutely essential that accurate information is used by the government to determine the resources for London's councils. Failure to do so will damage London's already overstretched council services."
Where to?
Britons moving abroad are chasing jobs, sun and large expat populations. Australia is the biggest draw, with 71,000 emigrating in 2004 and 2005, while 58,000 moved to Spain and 42,000 to France. The only country in the top 10 with a cooler climate than the UK is the Netherlands. South Africa and the United Arab Emirates are increasingly popular destinations, accounting for a boom in people looking for a career move abroad. Analysis suggests half of emigrants are either looking for work or have a job lined up, dispelling the myth that most are moving to retire on the Costa Brava. Today's figures also suggest that the boom in eastern Europeans arriving in the UK to work might not be a permanent feature of urban life - 16,000 returned home in 2006 after spending more than a year in the UK, up from 3,000 the year before. ONS aid that young eastern Europeans are increasingly spending time working in British cities as a kind of gap year.
Baby boom
Predictions of a mini baby-boom are born out by the latest birth statistics, which reveal a leap in the birthrate and that one in four babies are now born to at least one foreign parent. Birthrates rose for the fourth consecutive year last year after a longer steady period of decline - 734,000 babies were born last year, up by nearly 70,000 compared with four years previously. The impact of the rise in births is widespread. In the NHS there are concerns from midwives that maternity wards will struggle to cope with the rising numbers of births. Behind the scenes school officials are trying to anticipate future changes. But many argue that it is crucial to provide for an older and more dependent ageing population. Gordan Lishman, director general of Age Concern, said: "These figures highlight the importance of a national response to our growing older population. The rising numbers of over-85s means demand for social care will grow rapidly."
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