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Greatest Beatdowns in History
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dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Yeah but Charlie was armed with an AK-47 and a shi-tty stick. Thats a beatdown of immense proportions in my eyes!

Then you must be blind.

The media lost the war for the United States.......not the soldiers.

dmbfan

bejarano-korea

Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:03 am Post subject:

dmbfan wrote:

Quote:

Yeah but Charlie was armed with an AK-47 and a shi-tty stick. Thats a beatdown of immense proportions in my eyes!

Then you must be blind.

The media lost the war for the United States.......not the soldiers.

dmbfan

What utter rubbish!

The reason, and a reason the leaders of 'the developed world' have yet to grasp is that the indigineous populations of the countries that get invaded don't take to spotty little foreign oiks of 19 shoving rifles in their faces,
installing puppet goverments to control them and killing their families by aerial bombardments.

So they will fight to the death wherever it is Iraq or Vietnam, will your average GI or British fight to the death? not on your nelly. And no amount of technology will determine the final result.

The media were pro-Vietnam until they started to lose lives by the plane load and the American goverment lost the stomach a fight to the end.

The stakes were raised by the Viet Cong which was fight to the death and the americans couldn't raise it. It is not like the US and its SEATO allies didn't try, how many bombs, agent orange and napalm did they drop on the civillian populatons of Vietnam?

Or do you think the reason the Soviets lost in Afghanistan was because of the Soviet media? Laughing

Even though the Soviets won every battle in Afghanistan.

Dogg the bounty hunter says it the best 'A cur will fight like a lion in its own backyard'

Cast it in stone.

crusher_of_heads

Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:19 am Post subject:

WW2 Germany v. France

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:03 am Post subject:

Quote:

Wow...you must have been there, eh?

You can say all you want.......the media was the downfall. Yes, America lost heart, not the soliders mind you.

dmbfan

bejarano-korea

Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:07 am Post subject:

Quote:

Wow...you must have been there, eh?

You can say all you want.......the media was the downfall. Yes, America lost heart, not the soliders mind you.

dmbfan

Why? Were you? Laughing

I can say all I want as long as I have fact to back it up. I deal with fact and not opinion. The NVA tanks rolling into Saigon in 1975 while the
last helicopter full of Americans was leaving their South Vietnamese allies to a fate worse than death had nothing to do with the power of the American media.

Its ridiculous to even suggest that.

And it is going to happen all over again in Iraq, stay tuned!

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:30 am Post subject:

Quote:

Why? Were you?

I can say all I want as long as I have fact to back it up. I deal with fact and not opinion. The NVA tanks rolling into Saigon in 1975 while the
last helicopter full of Americans was leaving their South Vietnamese allies to a fate worse than death had nothing to do with the power of the American media.

Its ridiculous to even suggest that.

And it is going to happen all over again in Iraq, stay tuned!

No, but my father was. At this point, I would believe what he had to say over someone who was not.

In regards to leaving the SV to a fate worse then death, that is why the U.S. should not pull out of Iraq........................too many bleeding heart, far left liberals who see the world as they WANT it, not as it really is.

No, it is not ridiculous to suggest the media played as the main contributor to America pulling out of Vietnam. If the media had access to WWII, as they did in Vietnam (and as they do now), I'm sure the same type of people would be begging the United States to pull out.

People die in war. When the citizens see it on the news nightly, it provides the sympathy syndrome.

The U.S. will always have the double standard thrown at it........."if we do...if we don't". But, at least the U.S. takes a stand on most things.....unlike many other countries that just stand on the sidelines, and waits to see who wins.

So, here is what I suggest. I suggest you take your "facts", and go to a VFW post and present them to the vets who are there. Then, tell them how they lost the war, and got "beatdown", while suggesting the media had nothing to do with it.

Did America lose the war? If the answer is yes, then I would not disagree. But, to say the U.S. was beatdown.........no. Do I feel the U.S. should have been there? I can't answer that, because I was not alive during that time. But, I will not support a fabrication that those soldiers were "beat down"..........Do I think we should have pulled out? No, we should have stuck with it. But, instead communism was allowed to take over.......while the far left supported it.

dmbfan

P.S. If the SK military and government had provided more, then things could have been different. Also, the American military at the time was mainly trained for an offensive front. They initialy went in as a defensive force, which unfortunatley, there were not suited for. Furthermore, if anyone is going to be blamed, then most of it should be put on Johnson, Nixon (who advised the SV government not to attend any cease fire talks until after the U.S. presidential election). The war should have been managed by the commanders, not politicians.

minorthreat

Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: in your base, killing your mans

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:49 am Post subject:

Not enough soccer-related ones. Hell, not any soccer-related ones. Butrague�o vs. Denmark, WC86 Arsenal vs. the Premier League, 2003/2004 Australia vs. American Samoa, 2002 WCQs Real Madrid vs. Valencia, 2000 CL final Hungary vs. England, 1953 and 1954 Manchester United vs. Arsenal, 2001 The referee vs. Spain, WC02 quarterfinal

bejarano-korea

Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:57 am Post subject:

Quote:

No, but my father was. At this point, I would believe what he had to say over someone who was not.

So what? With all due respect to your father, whats he says and thinks doesn't make any points of yours valid. You weren't there the same as me, you know what you know and have formed an opinion from what you have read exactly the same as me.

My dad is a Korean war veteran, doesn't make my opinion on it authorative.

Quote:

In regards to leaving the SV to a fate worse then death, that is why the U.S. should not pull out of Iraq........................too many bleeding heart, far left liberals who see the world as they WANT it, not as it really is.

Yes, but you are not winning the war in Iraq are you? the coalition have won 70 odd battles since the invasion and lost one. Thats nothing to do with 'liberalism' rather than the west invading a country thinking that
their superior technology will do the job of policing the populace and winning 'hearts and minds'.

Simply put, it has not worked at all.

Quote:

No, it is not ridiculous to suggest the media played as the main contributor to America pulling out of Vietnam. If the media had access to WWII, as they did in Vietnam (and as they do now), I'm sure the same type of people would be begging the United States to pull out.

I don't know what you know of history but there was a HUGE isolationist movement in the united states prior to WW2, you my friend suggested it was the media that lost the war for the united states in Vietnam. Th American public was pro Vietnam war till about 1969. I wasn't there of course but that was in every academic portrayl on the subject. The reason the Americans lost was because they weren't willing to pay the price the cong did. Happing now in Iraq, will the average GI or British squaddie give their life for Allah and their holy land. Now if you know the anwser to that, how are you going to beat that enemy?

Quote:

People die in war. When the citizens see it on the news nightly, it provides the sympathy syndrome.

Unlike in Israel? It helps if you are winning do you not think?

Quote:

The U.S. will always have the double standard thrown at it........."if we do...if we don't". But, at least the U.S. takes a stand on most things.....unlike many other countries that just stand on the sidelines, and waits to see who wins.

No they don't. World war 1 and World war 2? Rwanda? Clinton let a million people get murdered by machete wielding thugs, you had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Balkans, I'm not soley blaming America for that though because the British were just as guilty.

Quote:

So, here is what I suggest. I suggest you take your "facts", and go to a VFW post and present them to the vets who are there. Then, tell them how they lost the war, and got "beatdown", while suggesting the media had nothing to do with it.

I don't see your point here. Is your point that because I don't address my views on a site amongst people who will have a biased view on the subject, its not valid?

I do it the same reason I wouldn't go on 'stormfront' and talk about my views on anti-racism. It would be a complete waste of my time.

Quote:

Did America lose the war? If the answer is yes, then I would not disagree. But, to say the U.S. was beatdown.........no. Do I feel the U.S. should have been there? I can't answer that, because I was not alive during that time. But, I will not support a fabrication that those soldiers were "beat down"..........Do I think we should have pulled out? No, we should have stuck with it. But, instead communism was allowed to take over.......while the far left supported it.

'Communism was allowed to take over' really you want to stop watching fox news mate. People... and it has been proven all over the world now, do not want US puppet goverments leading them (apart from the British of course) they don't want American troops in their country and they don't want to be dictated by a superpower whose only concern is how to make money on the backs of the people and resources of the third world.

A million Vietnamese died fighting the US between 1965-75. If you think your presence in South Vietnam was wanted by the people then you are a fool and I have the figures to prove it. I'll ask you another question.

Do the Iraqi people want US troops in their country now?

Think about it.

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Oh I see......someone who was actually there does not hold sway to someone who obtained "facts" in a book....my bad. Also, I never said my points where the end all be all........but, you sure make a huge assumption saying the United States solides were "beat down".

Quote:

Well, that depends on what your media sources are......BBC, NY Times, CNN, etc. Now, in terms of winning the war, the Iraqi people have their own battles taking place, which is making circumstances much more difficult. They are having their own struggle for power against themselves. In regards to the West invading........well, if you want to have a crazy dictator (who was getting more poweful, rich and delusional) who wants to control the entire middle east, while sitting on a huge percentage of the worlds oil supply, then there is something not right there. OH.......and he did have WMD's, but snuck them into Syria before the invasion. In regards to winning "hearts and minds", it is funny that CNN will only show you the bad things that are happening.........nothing good. Nor will you see the coalition soldiers saving people, providing food from their own rations, and fighting for those who are too helpless or cowadly to fight for themselves.

Quote:

I am fully aware that the United States went into a state of isolationism after WW1. On one side, you had cry baby Europe wanting the U.S. to intervene militarily. Then, on the other you had U.S. citizens who did not want to get involved in another conflict in Europe. ...............just think of how many lives would have been saved if the U.S. DID get involved earlier (and if the powers of Europe at that time had a little more sense about what was happening around them).

Yes, I agree the enemy is willing to die for Allah. But, I also agree that the coalition soldiers are willing to die as well......if they weren't they would not be there. One reason Europe cowtows to them is because of the high muslim population.........."if we leave them alone, they will leave us alone"....................NO...not gonna happen.

Quote:

Unlike in Israel? It helps if you are winning do you not think?

Again, this depends on what media sources you watch. Everyone knows that most of the world media hates Bush, and will report anything to make him look bad (which brings up another point...........if 911 was really an inside job, don't you think that the democrats, U.S. papers and foreign media sources would have reported it, and had Bush's head on a platter?). So, instead of relying on a far left media source, perhaps you should interview the soldiers that are/were fighting, and ask them how they feel?

Quote:

My point exactly...thank you. Dammed if we do, dammed if we don't.

Quote:

.

My point is, rather then hide behind academia, talk to those who were actually there and gather more facts. If what you gather supports your points, then fine.

Quote:

I never said the SV wanted the U.S. there, so lets stop putting words or assumptions in my postings, OK? In regards to claiming the resources of third world countries, well.............shite happens. I can't argue that. But, what was the old saying............."The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire"?......

Puppet governments.........OK, in regards to Iraq, well.......if you recall they held an election and voted the man in power.....not the United States.

See, this is what the far left wants. They WANT the U.S. to pull out, so they can say how we abandonded the Iraqi people. God help us if a far left crackpot gets in office......................

Hey, I think Fox is pretty good in what they report. I don't see what all the hubub is about. They report on from both sides. Yet, they are patriotic.........they may not support the way, but they support the troops and seeing this committment through. Regardless if we pull out, the problems will not simply go away..............something the far left and "progressive Europe" will not acknowlede.

What is happening there is not just the problem of the U.S., it is going to (is, rather) affect the entire world. There are to be people that will stand up and say "No"........granted, Europe is not the best example of this (and at times, niether is the U.S.) but it has to be done.

Whether or not you agree, that is fine. Democracy and free thinking is great! But, dont' make judgements on those who have gave so much for others.............regardless of whether those in power were wrong. It is easy to say these things from afar a we do .................so, I suggest you enlist and go make the world a better place.

Yes, I somewhat agree that America is divided on the war in Iraq. But, if we pull out now, what messege is that going to send to our enemies and to the rest of the world? Also, I would say the main reason why much of the middle east hates America is because we support Isreal, and I agree with that. Granted, many religious issues are at foot........but I feel that the U.S. should stand by Isreal......"the little satan" Rolling Eyes

So, back to the main point.................sorry, I still don't agree that U.S. soldiers were given a "beat down" in Vietnam. If anyone received a beat down, it was the American public........not the soldiers.

Oh, and to answer your question on whether or not the Iraqi people want the coalition there............well, some do....some don't. Although, the Iraqi government still thinks the coalition forces should give them more time. Which brings up another point...........I support the U.S. pulling out for one reason.................tif Iraq cannot get its shite together, and take the reigns over there. THAT was supposed to happen already, but it has not.

dmbfan

bejarano-korea

Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Yeah, course it does, depends what they say and if they can substansiate what they say with fact. BUT THAT PERSON ISN'T YOU! It's your dad! Now if you want to get your old feller on here and we can have this debate then we might get somewhere, but you weren't in Vietnam an your point of view (whatever it's source) has as much gravitas as mine.

Now a beatdown doesn't have to have destruction everywhere. The biggest beatdown in history if you are a christian was david vs goliath, goliath got done with a slingshot. Similar situation in Vietnam, The cong had no heavy artillery, not much air support, not much in the way of
military technology, they beat the worls most premier military power with AK-47s, sharpened sticks with faeces on the end and determination and perseverance.

Quote:

The 'crazy dictator' had been on the end of a 13 year trade embargo that was suspended by the americans for (suprise suprise) oil in the exchange of food. The US and the British made regular air sorties over Iraq and there was a flight embargo in and out of Iraq, now do you think long with all that and satellite navigation over Iraq for those 13 years you would know that Saddam had NO weapons of mass destruction.

Saddam did not have WMDs, you are now being delusional or stupid on purpose! Every right wing pro-war nutcase now admits that Saddam never had any WMDs.

Get me ONE link from any website to back your claim that Saddam smuggled WMDs into Syria? and I mean a reputable source and not some wacky, nut-job, imbecile republican site.

Quote:

You came into WW1 with a 100000 troops (the same number of British troop who died on the first day of the somme) with 9 months left of the war. WW2, the only country to make any profit from that war was the United States! and you came into help us and the Canadians with the liberation of Europe in late 1943-1944. Long after we saved ourselves from
the Nazis. Thanks anyway, you did help us (which we paid for with interest) but you didn't save us!

Quote:

Yes, I agree the enemy is willing to die for Allah. But, I also agree that the coalition soldiers are willing to die as well......if they weren't they would not be there. One reason Europe cowtows to them is because of the high muslim population.........."if we leave them alone, they will leave us alone"....................NO...not gonna happen.

No they don't! Have you ever been a soldier? I was one, my brother has come out of the army and did a tour of Iraq and Afghanistan and was a 12 year career soldier and my dad was one and of all the soldiers I know, nobody wants to die in a war!

But if foreign troops are on your soil and you are a believer in a religion who justifies war against the 'kuffars' who are on the holy land then you are going to die for your cause than a coalition soldier by a million to one!

So the coalition soldiers volunteered to be in Iraq on 15 month tours?

Quote:

What are you bringing 9/11 into the war in Iraq for?, it has nothing to do wiht it and you know it.

The worlds media hates Bush? The whole world hates Bush! I don't think you have to be a journalist or a broadcaster to despise the lying, warmongering shytehawk do you?

Quote:

My point is, rather then hide behind academia, talk to those who were actually there and gather more facts. If what you gather supports your points, then fine.

But thats not you is it?

Quote:

So if the South Vietnamese didn't want you there, why were you there? As for the British nd their crimes against humnity, you are spot on. We were a shower of bastards.

Quote:

Puppet governments.........OK, in regards to Iraq, well.......if you recall they held an election and voted the man in power.....not the United States.

Any Al Qaeda/ Baathist party politicians standing for election? Anyone standing on an anti american slate? puppet goverment!

Quote:

See, this is what the far left wants. They WANT the U.S. to pull out, so they can say how we abandonded the Iraqi people. God help us if a far left crackpot gets in office......................

Hey, I think Fox is pretty good in what they report. I don't see what all the hubub is about. They report on from both sides. Yet, they are patriotic.........they may not support the way, but they support the troops and seeing this committment through. Regardless if we pull out, the problems will not simply go away..............something the far left and "progressive Europe" will not acknowlede.

You are a lunatic aren't you? Whose next? What about the 'Axis of Evil' your commander in chief declared war on in 2003? Or are you going to let Iran, Syria and North Korea off the hook?

Quote:

What is happening there is not just the problem of the U.S., it is going to (is, rather) affect the entire world. There are to be people that will stand up and say "No"........granted, Europe is not the best example of this (and at times, niether is the U.S.) but it has to be done.

Whether or not you agree, that is fine. Democracy and free thinking is great! But, dont' make judgements on those who have gave so much for others.............regardless of whether those in power were wrong. It is easy to say these things from afar a we do .................so, I suggest you enlist and go make the world a better place.

This is typical American nut-job thinking, I was a soldier. I joined because I couln't find work as a 19 year old. You may or may not been in the armed forces but as long as I have a mouth and free thought I will speak my mind.

I protect my own rights to free speech, with my two hands and my brain, I pay my taxes and act with civility to everyone in my community so I will say whatever I damn please and if you don't like it then you can argue against but let me tell you something no soldier who is serving in the middle east who is protecting my 'freedoms' They are there for their paymasters and for the oil. to ay otherwise is a slight to right thinking people everywhere.

I'm protecting my freedoms by myself thanks very much!

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject:

Ah.....well, since you have resorted to personal attacks, you just proved that you don't really have anything to go on.......nice job. I would recommend checking out the book "Saddam's Secrets", written by Georges Saddas. Why is it so hard to believe that Saddam was illegally selling oil to Iran, wanted to contirbue to the destruction of Isreal, and wanted to rule the middle east? If anyone sounds misguided, it would be you. Anywya, it was documented, but do you really thing the far left media would want to circulate it? NO, they would not because it would not make Bush look bad. In regards to talking to my father about his experience and opinions of the Vietnman War, you are assuming that it was not objective, nor did I ask objective questions. I asked a family memember about this topic......about American soldiers being "beat down". The response I received, from someone who was young and informative about those times, was that the the U.S. military was not allowed to do its full job. They had one hand tied behind thier back, and were not able to do what they needed to do.......because it was declared a "conflict", not a war. Furthermore, is was not only the U.S. that knew Saddam had WMD's, it was Britian, France and Germany (and a few other European powers). In fact, Britian and the U.S. shared intelligence data on the matter. I gotta go, but we will continue this later............that is, unless you can refrain from purposely attacking my character? dmbfan

newton kabiddles

Joined: 31 Mar 2007

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject:

Smokin' Joe rocking Ali's world and putting him to the canvas in the fifteenth round. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ3aUmSBSbY

Jeju Rocks

Joined: 23 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject:

This thread is now officially lame. Keep up the good work you wet blankets.

newton kabiddles

Joined: 31 Mar 2007

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject:

someone please confirm that my beatdown choice was best

The Perfect Cup of Coffee

Joined: 17 Jun 2007

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:33 am Post subject:

Confirmed!

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