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endo

Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Location: Seoul...my home
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: Re: endo.... |
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| Mosley wrote: |
Back home, I have been a harsh critic of police at municipal, provincial and federal levels. Well, I'm sure for different reasons than you would be but....
Bottom line: I'm not convinced that the police were directly trying to instigate violence. As for the sources cited to the contrary: please.... the CBC? CUPE? You may as well quote PRAVDA, c. 1975. |
For heavens sake the Quebec Provincial Polics admitted that the instigators in the youtube video were theirs! |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Yeesh! Ya, the cops were there. Trying to instigate violence? Give it a break. The evidence(a concept hated by leftist conspiracy theorists) isn't there that the police were actually trying to start something violent. Nada. |
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Alias

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
| Yeesh! Ya, the cops were there. Trying to instigate violence? Give it a break. The evidence(a concept hated by leftist conspiracy theorists) isn't there that the police were actually trying to start something violent. Nada. |
Sigh. Actually they have not explained why they were carrying rocks to the front of the line. No other protestors had them. There are very serious questions to be answered. |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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The left needs to get over this. What bad deeds did these cops exactly do?
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ONLY IN CANADA -- Only in Canada --- a.k.a. Dreamland -- would such a big, oh-my-God, tsk, tsk, tsk, outrage happen over some cops caught pretending to be protesters at the Montebello political summit.
What, exactly, is the big deal?
There IS no big deal.
Except that now you have a bunch of naive, not-too-bright Dreamlanders trying, predictably, to exploit it for self-serving political purposes, trying their damnedest to create a national issue when there is no issue, period.
They don't come across looking intelligent.
They come across looking what they are: DUMB Dreamlanders.
Three Quebec provincial police infiltrated themselves among the mob of protesters. Yeah, so? What's new? It's done all the time here, there, and everywhere by the cops in situations such as this. This wasn't a meeting of the Gatineau Knitting Society. This was a meeting of the three most powerful leaders on the continent, one of them the most powerful leader in the world: President George W. Bush of the United States, Prime Minister Stephen Harper of Canada, President Felipe Calderon of Mexico.
What, you think these three don't come under regular death threats from society's lunatic population? Yes, Dreamlanders, they do -- even (and I know this will come to you as a shock) your prime minister of Canada.
If these leaders and their policies were beloved, you wouldn't have had the mob of professional agitators on the scene screaming insults, throwing rocks, trying to provoke the cops, all the while looking around for the TV cameras, hoping for their minute of fame on the six o'clock news.
The agitators blamed the cops and sundry security people for starting things, but then agitators always do, don't they?
Okay, so some protester in the mob had a cellphone camera and recorded three guys among them with their faces concealed -- one of them holding a rock -- and it turned out the three were undercover cops, obviously assigned to mix in with the mob.
You have a problem with that? Why? Who knows what dirty deeds agitators might have up their sleeves, which is why cops infiltrate -- so they can listen, overhear, and observe from the inside. The covered faces? Of course. They're undercover cops. They'd infiltrated.
They don't want to hear from one or more of the agitators: "Hey, I know you, I've seen you before, I know that face, you're a COP, you arrested me a few years back -- careful what you say and do, everybody, there's a cop amongst us."
Bandannas covering faces? There were a number of faces covered by bandannas, including that of one sweetheart setting the American flag on fire.
Certain Dreamlanders are appalled because one of the cops was holding a rock. Oh, dear. Terrible. Just terrible. Did he throw it? No. Not like some of the protesters had done earlier with their rocks.
The cop was holding a rock for a very good and smart reason: To enhance his cover as an infiltrator among people who use rocks as weapons. Do you really believe the cop's intention was to throw said rock at one of his fellow cops, with the serious risk of arrest, his cover blown, his career, too?
The rock was simply a prop. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe Dreamlanders would have been more sympathetic had he been holding (a) a can of pepper spray, (b) a bag of excrement -- as professional agitators have been known to do.
I'm sure Jack Layton, Gilles Duceppe, and Stephane Dion -- Dreamlanders all -- will be leaping into this non-issue, howling for an inquiry, demanding resignations, making asses of themselves to those of us who possess what they don't: Intelligence and common sense. |
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/McRae_Earl/2007/08/26/pf-4447269.html |
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endo

Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Location: Seoul...my home
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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A prop eh?
Anyways, how do you respond to the fact that the police instigators were doing a lot of pushing and shoving while amongst the protestors?
And how about the fact that they were shouting out some comments in order to envourage violence/ |
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Alias

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Nice to see you finally admit that they were cops.
So why didn't any of these other protesters have rocks? This is one of the main reasons that they were identified. BECAUSE THEY STOOD OUT!
As for the neo-con rag editorial that says this is a "non-issue". Since when is the possible breach of civil rights a non-issue? I'm sure these tools were also making excuses for the Ian Bush death as well. So much for being oppossed to big government. |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Alias, I'll I wanted was more evidence to be sure(such as an admission from the police themselves). You can forgive me if I don't take the word of protesters at face value.
One of them had a rock because he was trying to fit in. Unfortunately, he went to a group of non-violent protesters. Let's not forget that many protesters were throwing rocks and other objects throughout these few days. In reality, he never raised nor threw the rock, so what's the harm exactly? What wrong did he do?
And how were civil rights violated? Every government in every country plants police within protest groups. Admit it or not, some of these groups are violent and it's important to pick out the people that may cause troubles. Lives are on the line with these radical nut jobs. It's important to isolate who is peaceful and who isn't.
These three "spies" looked like tools. They didn't do the best job of fitting in. That is their fault. They were not violent nor did they violate civil rights.
Reality is dangerous and recon is required. The police were doing their job, whether they were completely competent on that day is another story. |
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endo

Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Location: Seoul...my home
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| enns wrote: |
Alias, I'll I wanted was more evidence to be sure(such as an admission from the police themselves). You can forgive me if I don't take the word of protesters at face value.
One of them had a rock because he was trying to fit in. Unfortunately, he went to a group of non-violent protesters. Let's not forget that many protesters were throwing rocks and other objects throughout these few days. In reality, he never raised nor threw the rock, so what's the harm exactly? What wrong did he do?
And how were civil rights violated? Every government in every country plants police within protest groups. Admit it or not, some of these groups are violent and it's important to pick out the people that may cause troubles. Lives are on the line with these radical nut jobs. It's important to isolate who is peaceful and who isn't.
These three "spies" looked like tools. They didn't do the best job of fitting in. That is their fault. They were not violent nor did they violate civil rights.
Reality is dangerous and recon is required. The police were doing their job, whether they were completely competent on that day is another story. |
really man, just bite the bullet and give it up |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| That's my whole point. I want the left to give up on this non-issue. It's a joke really. |
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Alias

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| enns wrote: |
| Alias, I'll I wanted was more evidence to be sure(such as an admission from the police themselves). You can forgive me if I don't take the word of protesters at face value. |
The police have already lied about this once. Then when the video evidence became too much they finally confessed it was them. Remember you also denied they were cops earlier.
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| One of them had a rock because he was trying to fit in. Unfortunately, he went to a group of non-violent protesters. |
Why did they go to a group of non-violent portesters with rocks in hand? That is the question being raised.
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And how were civil rights violated? |
The serious and legitimate accusation being made is that the police went outside their mandate by trying to incite violence. A public inquiry is necessary to answer these questions.
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These three "spies" looked like tools. They didn't do the best job of fitting in. That is their fault. They were not violent nor did they violate civil rights.
Reality is dangerous and recon is required. The police were doing their job, whether they were completely competent on that day is another story. |
Not talking about their competency. We are talking about if they were sent there to provoke and incident so riot police would have an excuse to remove the protesters from the area. This is why people are calling for a public inquiry. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Location: Incheon
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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This is what confuses me about most posters and people in general with certain political leanings. No matter what the situtaion is, they will defend thier view blindly that all reason and logic dissapears.
Here we have two masked men, invading a peacfull legitimate protest, and people are trying to come up with the most insane reasons to defend them. Simple reasoning says that they were there to incite violence. Here is the math;Man with Rock=dangerous man.
Some poeple, despite their political views, are not violent, this protest was very orderly and they smelled something wrong. Cops with rocks are not there to fit in and see what is going on. They are there to get adrenaline pumped up and make an excuse for the other cops to bash some heads and make the protestors look bad.
I personally hate cops, it's not a political thing, I have just seen too much corruption and vilolence on their part in my life to have any respect for the vast majority of them. I ee this situation and it only justifies my suspicions.How the hell do you controll a legal peaceful demonstration? You don't! Or, you do something to make it violent. This is just another example of the abuse of authority. Anyone who really believes in freedom of speech should be appalled |
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ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm appalled.
There are only two kinds in this world really - cuts through all arguements. Those who want to change things for the better and those with vested interest and who wish to control/contain so there remains the status quo. Ever and anon this fight. I'm for change. One must only look up and around, this world, to arrive at this conclusion. Nature too, proves my point.
DD
DD |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: |
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First off, I never denied they were cops, I wanted more evidence. It didn't surprise me that they were police.
I just don't understand the big deal here. The left is clinging to this issue to keep their agenda in the media.
Police around the world use these tactics, this is nothing new. Is the rock the only sticking point here? A prop that was never used in any violent manner? Do we really think he was going to attack the police with it?
These guys looked like idiots but did nothing to turn this into a week long news story. In a time where protesters attack police and attempt to get at world leaders, tactics such as these are needed to combat the loony left. |
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endo

Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Location: Seoul...my home
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: |
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This isn't a left versus right thing.
This is a pair of cops sent into a peaceful protest trying to insitgate aggitation in them in order to cause a distebance kind of thing. |
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Alias

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
This isn't a left versus right thing.
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Of course it isn't. Unfortunately just look at the post above yours to see how there are those who refuse to see it as anything but that. |
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