|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Is "what?" rude? |
| Yes, very |
|
16% |
[ 6 ] |
| A little perhaps, but nothing to go nuts about |
|
54% |
[ 20 ] |
| No |
|
29% |
[ 11 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 37 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
 Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| SPINOZA wrote: |
Korea-Berjano was extremely rude but very funny and perhaps right. My OP was very pompous and, yes, I'm originally from Manchester but moved away at age 13. I agree that the social class of person in Manchester's suburbs is very low, but places such as Withington, Didsbury and adjoining towns like Trafford and Timperley are as affluent as a the wealthiest parts of London and Home Counties. Central Manchester, since the IRA bomb in 1996, has also emerged as one of the most vibrant, affluent, desirable (and thus most expensive) places to live in England. I suggest you review your view of Manchester to one more appropriate for the modern context and not least reconsider your immediate association of levels of speech in English to social class. And besides - unless a person is from Hull ("Bicardi and diet Kirk") - social class and region prejudice amongst fellow Brits taints the nation. |
Well said me ol' chum. You tell that cheeky BK! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
d.coles
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Bucheon
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
"What" is okay in an informal setting. Otherwise it's rude, no matter the tone. I'm from the U.S. and I do not use "what", usually I'll say "excuse me" or "sorry".
It seems, at least in the U.S. anyway, that there is no longer an emphasis on teaching children proper manners. It goes beyond the use of the word "what" in terms of what Amercans find acceptable now. I wonder why that is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I'm originally from Manchester but moved away at age 13. I agree that the social class of person in Manchester's suburbs is very low, but places such as Withington, Didsbury and adjoining towns like Trafford and Timperley are as affluent as a the wealthiest parts of London and Home Counties. |
Yes, but everyone who is from Wythenshawe says they are from Didsbury Spinoza! 'hoo yoh tryin' to kid eh mate?'
Manchester looks very nice around the city centre nowadays I agree, all those big screens around Deansgate/Victoria go down a treat. But a trip up to Beswick and what awaits you is something akin to Sarajevo 1995.
You obviously come from good stock Spinoza, your folks got out of Manchester as soon as they could means they are all right with me.
Next, when taggart ferguson has retired. the glaziers will be making a move with the red shyte to their spiritul home of Guildford. You wait and see Spinoza!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Well said me ol' chum. You tell that cheeky BK! |
Take no notice of Spinoza BB, he's from Wythenshawe! 
| Quote: |
| social class and region prejudice amongst fellow Brits taints the nation |
I'm of the notion Manchester taints the nation!
As granny Bejarano would say about the recent developmnts of manchester: (if she could speak English)
You can't polish a turd!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I don't really have patriotic feelings about Manchester so am not offended, but I do love visits to Manchester for shopping. It has about 40 million great places to eat and drink and is 50x better than Seoul for shopping. Mind you, that's not saying much, is it?
| d.coles wrote: |
What" is okay in an informal setting. Otherwise it's rude, no matter the tone. I'm from the U.S. and I do not use "what", usually I'll say "excuse me" or "sorry".
It seems, at least in the U.S. anyway, that there is no longer an emphasis on teaching children proper manners. It goes beyond the use of the word "what" in terms of what Amercans find acceptable now. I wonder why that is. |
That's a good post. Mind you, maybe the votes suggest we're manners Nazis? I'm gonna try and be less of a manners fascist from now on perhaps. If an 'advanced' speaker of English, like a Korean English teacher, says "what?", I'll point out that in more formal situations, it will sound rather rude. In a standard classroom situation it's like trying to move a mountain.
Did you vote, btw? It's been on 6 for about 3 days.
| K-in-C wrote: |
| Do you use a question mark with 'pardon me'? |
Yes, in this context, because of rising intonation.
'Pardon me' is a 'sorry'.
'Pardon me?' is a 'what?'
'Excuse me' is either a request to move out of one's way, an apology or a request for attention.
'Excuse me?' is a 'what?'
'Sorry' is an apology
'Sorry?' is a 'what?' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SPINOZA wrote: |
Well, I don't really have patriotic feelings about Manchester so am not offended, but I do love visits to Manchester for shopping. It has about 40 million great places to eat and drink and is 50x better than Seoul for shopping. Mind you, that's not saying much, is it?
| d.coles wrote: |
What" is okay in an informal setting. Otherwise it's rude, no matter the tone. I'm from the U.S. and I do not use "what", usually I'll say "excuse me" or "sorry".
It seems, at least in the U.S. anyway, that there is no longer an emphasis on teaching children proper manners. It goes beyond the use of the word "what" in terms of what Amercans find acceptable now. I wonder why that is. |
That's a good post. Mind you, maybe the votes suggest we're manners Nazis? I'm gonna try and be less of a manners fascist from now on perhaps. If an 'advanced' speaker of English, like a Korean English teacher, says "what?", I'll point out that in more formal situations, it will sound rather rude. In a standard classroom situation it's like trying to move a mountain.
Did you vote, btw? It's been on 6 for about 3 days.
| K-in-C wrote: |
| Do you use a question mark with 'pardon me'? |
Yes, in this context, because of rising intonation.
'Pardon me' is a 'sorry'.
'Pardon me?' is a 'what?'
'Excuse me' is either a request to move out of one's way, an apology or a request for attention.
'Excuse me?' is a 'what?'
'Sorry' is an apology
'Sorry?' is a 'what?' |
What you have to remember is that in a lot of languages, there isn't the politesse that there is in English, I'll give you an example. In Spanish, it is quite common to reply with 'que?' which of the literal translation is 'what?'
When a Spaniard anwsers the phone they will normally anwser with 'digame' which means 'speak' which to English sensibilities is very rude.
So for example when you ask a Spaniard something and they say 'what?'
they don't think they are being rude, unless they are near native speakers they construct their English around the rules and grammatical structure of their first language.
Without knowing what the complexities of the Korean language, if it is a language without the politesse of English then thats the reason why they are coming across as rude.
Manchester has 40 million fantastic places to eat if you like kebabs and curry (for the uninititated, best kebabs outside Damascus) but you have gotta live there haven't ya? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's a good point. Koreans always respond with 'huh?' or '네?'...including kids to teachers!
I don't think I've ever heard "뭐요?" ever.
Good point about Spanish - didn't know about "speak!". Mind you, BK, unfortunately I find the Spanish the rudest and most abrupt race in the world, a stereotype reinforced on my recent travels to Portugal.
**My favorite Manchester restaurants serve traditional British food, such as Sam's Chop House.
***where are you from, btw? Are you from a British city yourself or are you from somewhere decent? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Without knowing what the complexities of the Korean language, if it is a language without the politesse of English then thats the reason why they are coming across as rude.
|
Very strict distinction between 반말 (used to children and friends) and 존대말 (used to your elders and betters and in more formal situations such as addressing the public).
That said, if kids get away with "eh?" and "neh?" to teachers, perhaps Korean only has one level for the "what?" context - I don't know.
Generally, Korean manners are significantly more straightforward than English as it's based chiefly on conjugating that final verb on the end of a sentence. A typical misconception in Korea is that English has only 'one level' and that we do not understand the concept of 'high speech'. The truth of the matter is that intermediate and advanced learners of Korean get the manners nailed (because it's easy) whereas a Korean English teacher will think "give me water" is a perfectly acceptable utterance regardless of the setting. Not the brightest folks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Good point about Spanish - didn't know about "speak!". Mind you, BK, unfortunately I find the Spanish the rudest and most abrupt race in the world, a stereotype reinforced on my recent travels to Portugal. |
I'm with you on this one, you go to South America and they are very polite and courteous, they would never use the term 'digame' on anwsering the phone.
| Quote: |
| where are you from, btw? Are you from a British city yourself or are you from somewhere decent? |
I'm from Wigan Spinoza! So I have no need to talk have I? 
Lived in Manchester for 3 years when I left the army (Moss side - Rusholme so I know the city very well)
Whereabouts is Sams chophouse? I tried to look for an address but can't find one. The steak and kidney pudding looks yummy though! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Good point about Spanish - didn't know about "speak!". Mind you, BK, unfortunately I find the Spanish the rudest and most abrupt race in the world, a stereotype reinforced on my recent travels to Portugal. |
| Quote: |
| where are you from, btw? Are you from a British city yourself or are you from somewhere decent? |
I'm from Wigan Spinoza! So I have no need to talk have I?
|
Absolutely not. Dreadful tip, sorry to hear that.
Actually, Wigan, like anywhere, has its nice areas. Even what is without question the ugliest place in the Western world - Oldham - has the delightful Hollingworth. Wigan has Standish -very leafy and posh part of town, if memory serves. I did my A'levels at Wigan College.
| Quote: |
| Whereabouts is Sams chophouse? I tried to look for an address but can't find one. The steak and kidney pudding looks yummy though! |
Cross Street and Deansgate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
d.coles
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Bucheon
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SPINOZA wrote: |
Did you vote, btw? It's been on 6 for about 3 days.
|
I voted 'yes' days ago. I just refrained from posting for awhile. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Good point about Spanish - didn't know about "speak!". Mind you, BK, unfortunately I find the Spanish the rudest and most abrupt race in the world, a stereotype reinforced on my recent travels to Portugal. |
| Quote: |
| where are you from, btw? Are you from a British city yourself or are you from somewhere decent? |
I'm from Wigan Spinoza! So I have no need to talk have I?
|
Absolutely not. Dreadful tip, sorry to hear that.
Actually, Wigan, like anywhere, has its nice areas. Even what is without question the ugliest place in the Western world - Oldham - has the delightful Hollingworth. Wigan has Standish -very leafy and posh part of town, if memory serves. I did my A'levels at Wigan College.
| Quote: |
| Whereabouts is Sams chophouse? I tried to look for an address but can't find one. The steak and kidney pudding looks yummy though! |
Cross Street and Deansgate. |
Wigan is like Manchester, gone through a big rennovation in the centre. I like Wigan, it is still 'traditional Lancashire' with the demograph not altering much from the 1950s and it is safe to live and walk the streets unlike as you have mentioned earlier Oldham and parts of Manchester.
I could buy a nice terraced house round Newtown (back of the JJB stadium) safe in the knowledge that it is a decent place to live.
Wigan Tech has a great tradition of academic excellence, you mean
the tech with the mining wheel outside and not St John Rigby?
| Quote: |
Cross Street and Deansgate |
Ta!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
A European, like a Spaniard or a German, might get away with it, but a Korean? No chance.
|
Maybe the Koreans sense your dislike of them and are responding rudely on purpose. |
don't tell him! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 0mg bejarno is friggin hilarious! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
