Korean Job Discussion Forums

[cubanlord]

As some of you know, I enjoy writing from time to time. Recently, I wrote the following article:

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/art/2007/08/181_7525.html

Yes, it wasn't a great piece, but I was tired of everyone always blaming foreign teachers and Korean teachers for the mishaps of the English Education system. As a result, I decided to write my true feelings in hopes that others out there (they know who they are) would actually listen and possibly do something about it.

Then, just a few short weeks thereafter, you get stuff like this:

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2007/08/113_9065.html

https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/08/28/200708280038.asp

https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/08/27/200708270034.asp

https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/08/23/200708230006.asp

etc.

No, I am not saying that my article had anything to do with it. Frankly, I am so glad that something is finally being done about the array of problems that plague the education system here in Korea.

Kudos to you Korea for finally holding people accountable!

[dogshed]

Accountability is needed, but people don't want to be accountable for
a solution until there is a solution.

The real solution is to change the structure of the system to work with
the resources available.

When there was a shortage of computer people in the 1990's there was a shortage of IT workers. That shortage was eventually solved by the dot com crash, but some lessons were learned.

1. Paying more money does not increase the supply of a particular kind of worker immediately. If you want people with 10 years of JAVA experience then you have to wait 10 years.

2. Some people without experience or credentials do a better job then people with experience and credentials.

3. You can mitigate the lack of skills or experience by reassigning tasks and changing job descriptions. If there is a shortage of programmers then you don't have your programmers doing technical support.

4. You can mitigate the lack of skills and experience by having people with the skills and experience create protocols for many tasks to be performed by others.

5. Many of our criteria for selecting workers is based on myths and incorrect assumptions.

You can't create a pack of people with ESL degrees and teaching experience overnight. You can however rearrange the structure of
the system to work better with the skills available in your staff.

The argument should be for a better structure that will work well better
for both the experienced and newbie teachers.

Another good model is Emergency Medicine.

I once did some library research on emergency medicine when I was an EMT. Back in the day people couldn't believe that you could be helped by someone who wasn't a doctor or a nurse. Ambulances practiced throw and go, throw the victim in the ambulance and go to the hospital. Often the patient arrived dead.

The answer was not to put an ER doctor on every ambulance.

About a month before the famous LA Fire Department paramedic service was started a rescue squad from Haywood County North Carolina developed a system where just a few key skills could be taught to volunteers who would later be known as paramedics.

The EMT's and paramedics in the ambulance learn a very small skill set compared to an emergency room physician, but the system is designed to handle that.

Also, because they concentrate on a relatively small skill set they are often better in the practical application of those skills than the physicians providing supervision.

[Typhoon]

I thought your article was well written and agree with it in principle. Korea's education issues are Korea's education issues. If people are unhappy with the hagown system then they need to let their money talk or make their opinions known. If people think English education is failing then they should get off their butts and start making plans to improve it.

There are a lot of qualified teachers in the world. The problem is a person with 6 years of experience in Ontario, Canada (chosen because I know a little about the system) will be making around $55 000 CDN and in 4 more years will be making around $72 000 CDN and then be in the process of retiring with a teacher's pension that will pay them close to a full salary when they retire (a full one if they work 4 years past their earliest retirement possibility). Why would any qualified person leave this situation to come to Korea to make 30 000 000 Korean Won a year (going on the high side of Korean English teacher salaries here) , with a crap pension? The answer is that most would not choose to do so. Some would but most would not. If you want to get qualified people then you have to adverstise well and pay high like Hong Kong and Singapore did 15 years ago. There were some great jobs there (still are) and they pay very well and have great working conditions. People want to go and work there. The solution is system. Other countries have made it work. Korea can too, but they have to want to make it work instead of wanting to exploit people (teachers, students and parents).

[dogshed]

You might get a better response if you changed the topic to something less vague. [Edit: It now has a much better topic.]

[Tony_Balony]

The author missed the most important thing, that would be delivering results.

The teachers are irrelevant, the country has to set standards and them meet them. Without that kind of guidance, the whole thing shamefully flounders.

Dismiss 95% of all foreign ESL teachers here with or without credentails. Korea has the ability to produce more than sufficient English teachers.

Let Korea know how absolutely ridiculous they look in the ESL world and just how retarded they appear

[mack4289]

Give us ownership of our visa and things might get better, because hagwans would be forced to treat us better in order to keep us. If hagwans treat us better, Korea's reputation as a destination for foreign teachers improves and they might attract more of us.

But there is still a problem beyond the control of the education system: if you're a qualified teacher who wants to travel, why come here (beyond the money)? If you had to sell Korea to someone without mentioning the money, how well would you do?

[Damulgun]

So is this what it comes down to? Writing your own articles to cover yourself up for being a unqualified english teacher?

[dogshed]

[Qinella]

In my expert opinion, the quality of teachers is less important than the curriculum. Students melt away hours from the clock on menial tasks that, in the long run, do not improve their English the slightest bit. Look at the extreme focus on grammar and the equivalent glossing over of immersion.

You can have a look at the tests these students have to take for public schools and they are maddening. Many of us wouldn't do so well on them. The students and teachers alike dwell on meaningless details of grammar, which in turn affects their overall speaking and writing abilities as they labor trifling points at the cost of overall coherence.

[cubanlord]

[cubanlord]

A lot of you have some solid points and I would like to use them in my next article. I have presented the problem. Now, I will present the solutions. Please tell me what you feel is the most important thing Korea can do to rectify the current situation. Also, please give me relevant information to support your opinion. All credit, if wished, will be given accordingly (and no, not handles. I'll PM you and you can let me know your real name).

Me.

[cubanlord]

[Typhoon]

[Typhoon]

[dogshed]

The two best English speakers in my town other than teachers are the brother and sister who work at the local GS station.

Look, if you learn English you can pump gas. Maybe the incentive is gone?