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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Alyallen bemoaned:
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| I'm American. I'd assume you are as well so why is it that you seem so intent on viewing some of your fellow Americans as nothing but garbage? |
My, but we are rather defensive here, are we not? Tell me wherein I stated or implied you were "garbage" or unAmerican?
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| I am really fed up with my views being tied up with how "Black" I appear in my posts. |
Uh, correct me if I erred, but you were the one who made a point of telling us that you are black. But thanks for sparing us that "African American" label. I'm always amused at how stringently the mass media uses this label to describe blacks but freely employs the term "whites" to describe European Americans. And of course all "Asians" are apparently "East Asian" even if they live in Saudi Arabia or the Maldives.
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| that basic and primitive "us vs. them" mentality |
What's sadder is that you would infer from my comments that I was pitting my own race against another. My underlying concern is for the essentializing of blacks, by black and white liberals, and nothing more. So you'd be better served to set aside your binary thinking.
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| The skit is about ninja love. Ninjas wear black clothing. So, at one point the ninja says "One you go black, you never go back....alive..." |
How do you know I didn't watch the video, since I never said as much? Regardless, commodifying the stereotype instead of appropriating it says more about you than me. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:26 am Post subject: |
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"My underlying concern is for the essentializing of blacks, by black and white liberals, and nothing more."
I think that Allyallen and you are actually on the same page. She has complained often about Jessie and Al etc. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| My, but we are rather defensive here, are we not? Tell me wherein I stated or implied you were "garbage" or unAmerican? |
Who said that I included myself in the "garbage? When did I say that you hought I was unAmerican? You like to lump people into groups so naturally I must be in the same group?
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Uh, correct me if I erred, but you were the one who made a point of telling us that you are black. But thanks for sparing us that "African American" label. I'm always amused at how stringently the mass media uses this label to describe blacks but freely employs the term "whites" to describe European Americans. And of course all "Asians" are apparently "East Asian" even if they live in Saudi Arabia or the Maldives. |
Uh...I am who I am. If I had to pick a label, I'd be Jamaican- American but unlike you I don't stop at the label and make a bunch of assumption. I am surprised actually. You don't seem to be a poster to make a million posts spouting "Koreans do ~" and act as if its an absolute but with Blacks you do.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| What's sadder is that you would infer from my comments that I was pitting my own race against another. My underlying concern is for the essentializing of blacks, by black and white liberals, and nothing more. So you'd be better served to set aside your binary thinking. |
What is sad is that I didn't state Black vs. White. You infered that on your own. What I meant could have been high class vs. Low Class, College educated vs. G.E.D./High School educated or Me and anyone who thinks like me vs. those people foolish enough to not agree with me
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| How do you know I didn't watch the video, since I never said as much? Regardless, commodifying the stereotype instead of appropriating it says more about you than me. |
If you saw the video, which for the sake of simplicity supplied a link to in my thread, you would drop this line of reasoning. It is funny and you have either a. a lousy sense of humor or at the very least b. a sense of humor far different from my own. Accept that and give up trying to see me into it then there is....[/quote]
| BJWD wrote: |
"My underlying concern is for the essentializing of blacks, by black and white liberals, and nothing more."
I think that Allyallen and you are actually on the same page. She has complained often about Jessie and Al etc. |
That's what I think too but for some reason stevemcgarrett doesn't see it that way. I suppose it's all or nothing with him. Either you agree 100% with him or you might as well be on the other side of the issue. I would love to figure it out but somehow I don't see that happening... |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Alyallen wrote:
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| Once you go Black, you never go back...Alive |
When you post with a signature like this, it tends to make the more discerning reader speculate on how much more of the black party line you've bought into. These expressions are tiresome, really. You could find a slew of white men in Asia who would readily chant the same thing, only with the word "Yellow."
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Wow, your an even bigger idiot than I originally thought. If that's even possible.
Her sigs about ninja and meant to be humerous. |
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mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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I'd think you'd have to be rigid-minded to always find stereotypes offensive. The same stereotypes that I'd find disturbing in certain contexts (maybe a propaganda film) I could find funny in a different context (maybe the Simpsons).
The point is that context matters a lot. If I hear a racist or sexist joke from a friend who I know doesn't support those kinds of views, I think it's funny. It's funny because it's so outrageous and absurd to us. But when I hear those kinds of jokes from someone who might actually be extraordinarily racist or sexist (I put the "extraordinarily" in because we're supposed to all be racist or sexist to some degree), then I'm disturbed.
So that's a long-winded way of saying that I don't find Alyallen's tag offensive because I take it to be having fun with the stereotype, not just buying into it. Sounds like a fine line to walk but it beats forcing yourself not to laugh because you think something isn't supposed to be funny. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Hey, Huff, since when does media ownership have anything to do with the persistent use of designated spokesman for the black community? |
Designated by whom? That is the question. No air time, no designation. It's as simple as that. The only reason Jesse and Al get airtime is because they draw the viewers in. And most of those viewers are whites. And a lot of them are conservatives. It doesn't matter if you love them or hate them, all that matters is that you watch them.
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| Why don't more blacks who do get air time speak out against this presumptuous posturing? |
Because they have better things to talk about than what Jesse and Al are up to. In my 15 years in Chicago, I don't think I discussed the goings on of Jesse or Al with a single black person. And I knew plenty of black people.
Jesse and Al may be off to the left in blaming "the white man," but they're going to draw a lot less fire from blacks than the other side, which denies any culpability whatsoever.
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| Both the video and Steve getting his ass handed to him. |
Really, how so Cocoa Puff? Do enlighten me. |
As Alyallen explained, it's a joke. Watch the video, and stop being so presumptuous. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: |
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huffdaddy wrote:
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| And most of those viewers are whites. |
Sure about that, are you? Let's see some Nielsen ratings or other stats. A lot of blacks cheer Jesse and Al onward and upward. My contention is that NO other racial or ethnic group in the U.S. participates in this sort of bandwagon representation. And neither you nor any of the other naysayers here have tried to refute it.
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| Jesse and Al may be off to the left in blaming "the white man," but they're going to draw a lot less fire from blacks than the other side, which denies any culpability whatsoever. |
Now you're really showing your ignorance. To claim that conservative blacks whitewash the past is ridiculous. For starters, read Shelby Steele's The Content of Our Character, a collection of eloquent essays. Get back to me when you're actually informed on the spectrum of black response to these issues.
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| As Alyallen explained, it's a joke. Watch the video, and stop being so presumptuous. |
Yeah, I got that, bruddah. But did you get the followup point I made? Obviously not, because you're too busy trying to characterize me as humorless.
mack wrote:
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| I'd think you'd have to be rigid-minded to always find stereotypes offensive. |
I don't take issue with you on this point at all. As a matter of fact, one of the pleasant things about living in Hawaii is that most people who are truly local don't take offense to ethnic jokes uttered in the spirit of joshing. Frank deLima, a local comedian of Portuguese ancestry, has made his bread and butter doing just that. I've seen his act in Waikiki several times. He is also very self-deprecating.
But guess which racial group is never the butt of his jokes?
Alyallen explained away:
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| What is sad is that I didn't state Black vs. White. You infered that on your own. What I meant could have been high class vs. Low Class |
Uh-huh.
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| an absolute but with Blacks you do. |
I see. So my concern that the Self-Annointed civil rights leaders on the Left are presenting a monolithic image of black America apparently didn't register with you?  |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Your obtuseness stuns me. If you can't understand where I'm coming from at this point, you are truly out of touch.
As far as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are concerned, they both have their own organizations. What makes you think that the people who come to their rallies (or at least a good majority) are not already adoring members of their respective flocks?
You really have to be dense to not understand that I am not a fan of either Jackson or Sharpton. I am one of the last people to stand on their side for any issue unless the facts of the matter sway me. I am not a lemming and neither are "Black" people. We are a diverse group of Northerners, Southerners, first-generation, second-generation, highly educated, uneducated and many other designations that I won't bother to list at this time. We are not a nameless, faceless single colored organism that only respond to the rallying call of a person or two.
I don't agree with Jackson or Sharpton but people have the right to choose who they want to listen to. However, the fact that some may feel that Jackson and/or Sharpton best represent their view does not negate the fact that others may completely disagree. Blacks are no more different than any other racial group in the U.S. We are all individuals and as long as you only see Blacks as adherents to the Jackson and Sharpton camps, anything you say in regard to them will be short sighted and very biased.
This discussion has been interesting if only because I've never had to deal with someone who was so intent on making their own point that they failed to see the similarities in the views of another. I think that deficiency makes for a poor debater and quite frankly at this point, most people who have followed this thread probably agree. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
huffdaddy wrote:
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| And most of those viewers are whites. |
Sure about that, are you? Let's see some Nielsen ratings or other stats. |
Given that blacks only make up 15-20% of the TV viewing audience, I'd be hard pressed to believe that they make up over 50% of the viewers of any major network program. But I don't really have time to look up network appearances by Jackson and Sharpton and find their corresponding Nielsen ratings, by race. Even if such data is publicly available, which it probably isn't.
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| As Alyallen explained, it's a joke. Watch the video, and stop being so presumptuous. |
Yeah, I got that, bruddah. But did you get the followup point I made? Obviously not, because you're too busy trying to characterize me as humorless. |
I read your followup, and you're still trying to ascribe your view of what you think blacks believe onto her. And no, it's obviously not racist inspired. You do that with everyone.
Which means two things. One, you are indeed humorless. And two, your analyses of what others believe is obviously tainted by what you want them to believe. As if we didn't already know that. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| As far as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are concerned, they both have their own organizations. |
I used to live just down the street from the Operation PUSH headquarters. Here it is:
Nice building, but hardly what you'd consider the home base for the "designated spokesman" of blacks.
FWIW, Farrakhan lives in the same neighborhood. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Which country is more racist? The United States, or Korea? Hard to tell. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| Which country is more racist? The United States, or Korea? Hard to tell. |
In Korea it's us versus them. In the U.S. it's everybody versus everybody. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| In Korea it's us versus them. In the U.S. it's everybody versus everybody. |
It does seem that way at times from an outsiders position. Though I have met some really nice guys in the military here who disprove that adage.
I guess that US military today is more open, than the home crowd but still I am sure that not everybody in the US hates everybody else.
If they do, then I will have to go there to prove it wrong. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| The US is still divided up into ethnic areas..no go zones for some. Each racial group sticks with their own. Its practically segregated. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: |
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The US is still divided up into ethnic areas..no go zones for some. Each racial group sticks with their own. Its practically segregated.
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I know and I can give you a historical account and a current account to base that on. Though in this forum, unless you are willing to ask and listen for those accounts then I will just make a general statement. Though technically "everybody" is a specific term and "everybody" includes exactly what it says. |
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