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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Alyallen insisted:
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| You really have to be dense to not understand that I am not a fan of either Jackson or Sharpton. I am one of the last people to stand on their side for any issue unless the facts of the matter sway me. I am not a lemming and neither are "Black" people. We are a diverse group of Northerners, Southerners, first-generation, second-generation, highly educated, uneducated and many other designations that I won't bother to list at this time. We are not a nameless, faceless single colored organism that only respond to the rallying call of a person or two. |
Still taking this personally, aren't you? Perhaps a little soju will calm you down before your next defensive posting. You are talking past me: I haven't said or implied that you're an apologist for these ambulance chasers. And I think I made it quite clear to all but you that it is precisely because I believe that blacks are not uniform in their views that its a travesty for a few to speak out on their behalf, dominating the mainstream media with their liberal agenda of victimhood. So you're wasting your time trying to "explain" that to me.
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| This discussion has been interesting if only because I've never had to deal with someone who was so intent on making their own point that they failed to see the similarities in the views of another. |
Good grief, man, but you're the one being obtuse, or perhaps willful like huffdaddy, who wants to convince me his point is correct simply because blacks wouldn't likely constitute a majority of TV viewers whenever Jesse and Co. are on-air. That too is missing the point.
Where is the public indignation from the Black Left about those on the Left who try to speak on their behalf, and the behalf of all blacks? Answer that question if you want this discussion to get somewhere.
Let me spell it out for you: if anyone stepped forward in the white, yellow, or brown community to try to do the same they would be immediately denounced by their ideological adversaries and denied and distanced by their ideological allies. Got the picture now or do you need it in a comic book? |
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mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Alyallen insisted:
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| You really have to be dense to not understand that I am not a fan of either Jackson or Sharpton. I am one of the last people to stand on their side for any issue unless the facts of the matter sway me. I am not a lemming and neither are "Black" people. We are a diverse group of Northerners, Southerners, first-generation, second-generation, highly educated, uneducated and many other designations that I won't bother to list at this time. We are not a nameless, faceless single colored organism that only respond to the rallying call of a person or two. |
Still taking this personally, aren't you? Perhaps a little soju will calm you down before your next defensive posting. You are talking past me: I haven't said or implied that you're an apologist for these ambulance chasers. And I think I made it quite clear to all but you that it is precisely because I believe that blacks are not uniform in their views that its a travesty for a few to speak out on their behalf, dominating the mainstream media with their liberal agenda of victimhood. So you're wasting your time trying to "explain" that to me.
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| This discussion has been interesting if only because I've never had to deal with someone who was so intent on making their own point that they failed to see the similarities in the views of another. |
Good grief, man, but you're the one being obtuse, or perhaps willful like huffdaddy, who wants to convince me his point is correct simply because blacks wouldn't likely constitute a majority of TV viewers whenever Jesse and Co. are on-air. That too is missing the point.
Where is the public indignation from the Black Left about those on the Left who try to speak on their behalf, and the behalf of all blacks? Answer that question if you want this discussion to get somewhere.
Let me spell it out for you: if anyone stepped forward in the white, yellow, or brown community to try to do the same they would be immediately denounced by their ideological adversaries and denied and distanced by their ideological allies. Got the picture now or do you need it in a comic book? |
Steve, why should AlyAllen answer that question, or answer for people that she has repeatedley said she disagrees with? Maybe I'm mistaken, but wanting AlyAllen to answer for those people seems similar to the people who want me to answer for the war in Iraq just because I'm American. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Alyallen insisted:
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| You really have to be dense to not understand that I am not a fan of either Jackson or Sharpton. I am one of the last people to stand on their side for any issue unless the facts of the matter sway me. I am not a lemming and neither are "Black" people. We are a diverse group of Northerners, Southerners, first-generation, second-generation, highly educated, uneducated and many other designations that I won't bother to list at this time. We are not a nameless, faceless single colored organism that only respond to the rallying call of a person or two. |
Still taking this personally, aren't you? Perhaps a little soju will calm you down before your next defensive posting. You are talking past me: I haven't said or implied that you're an apologist for these ambulance chasers. And I think I made it quite clear to all but you that it is precisely because I believe that blacks are not uniform in their views that its a travesty for a few to speak out on their behalf, dominating the mainstream media with their liberal agenda of victimhood. So you're wasting your time trying to "explain" that to me.
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| This discussion has been interesting if only because I've never had to deal with someone who was so intent on making their own point that they failed to see the similarities in the views of another. |
Good grief, man, but you're the one being obtuse, or perhaps willful like huffdaddy, who wants to convince me his point is correct simply because blacks wouldn't likely constitute a majority of TV viewers whenever Jesse and Co. are on-air. That too is missing the point.
Where is the public indignation from the Black Left about those on the Left who try to speak on their behalf, and the behalf of all blacks? Answer that question if you want this discussion to get somewhere.
Let me spell it out for you: if anyone stepped forward in the white, yellow, or brown community to try to do the same they would be immediately denounced by their ideological adversaries and denied and distanced by their ideological allies. Got the picture now or do you need it in a comic book? |
They are holdovers from the civil rights era and hold a lot of influence. I don't like it. You don't like it but hey Louis Farrakahn in his heyday got a lot of attention and he was a racist bigot. The media, especially now, want the quick soundbite that gets ratings even if what is said is complete garbage.
Like I said before. I don't know why they are still around but to be honest, I don't think anyone is rushing to take their place. They are dinosaurs and aren't truly needed anymore in my opinion. I think once they fade out, there won't be anymore "Black leaders." They were civil rights leaders and I don't know when their moniker changed to this current misnomer. You stated earlier that there are other "Black leaders" (I can't be bothered to hunt down your post and your exact wording) who appear on FOX news and have different opinions, so what's the problem? It sounds like there are alternate opinions out there to hear.
But for me, none of them matter. I don't have to listen to other people ramble to form my own opinions and I suppose that's why I have continued to disagree with you. Educated people should be able to pick up a newspaper or two, talk with friends, do some soul searching and come up with their own views without the help of talking heads. I didn't have cable in America until I was 18 and I was too busy getting educated to waste my time on Fox News or CNN sound bites...
This whole debate has gone so far off base from the original post that I believe that we should either cut our losses and get back on topic or battle this out in another thread....
Edit: mack4289 is very right. I answer for myself and can only guess at the reasonings for the actions or inactions of others.... |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Where is the public indignation from the Black Left about those on the Left who try to speak on their behalf, and the behalf of all blacks? Answer that question if you want this discussion to get somewhere. |
Ever heard of "airing dirty laundry"? Maybe you should read this, and you can sound a little bit more knowledge the next time you try to tell us about the black community.
After you're done with that, you can read this (and I know how much you like the large font):
http://www.chicagodefender.com/page/local.cfm?ArticleID=9540
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| That's progress. And it's about what we will or will not let others say or do to us. Even when black dignity and sensibilities were under attack by Michael Richards and Don Imus, the black community was conflicted as to who should be "speaking for us." There were just as many conversations about who "appointed Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton" (suspicious of their agendas), as there were about who should stop saying Ni**er,*itch and Ho first, white people or us? |
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| When black stakeholders stepped up in California to mediate who should fill the late Congresswoman Millander-McDonald's seat, they were called "self-appointed" and "self-anointed" by, who else but, other Blacks. The purpose was to forge a black agenda to retain political power and people with personal differences and conflicted political interests came together to forge the process. |
So yes, there are voices of dissent. But you, the white outsider, are not likely to hear them. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
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huffdaddy:
I'm quite familiar with the Chicago Defender, thank you very little.
And if I wasn't informed about voices of dissent in the black community I wouldn't have repeatedly mentioned conservative black voices aired on Fox News and the radio, nor would I have drawn a distinction between the black Left and Right.
I'll put my decade of living and working in the inner city, and my youth in desegregated military housing, not to mention my educational projects promoting black literature and the arts up against your knowledge any day of the week.
And I'm not an outsider but what sociologists refer to as an insider-outsider.
Regardless, you didn't answer my question directly, so I guess the font size still isn't large enough for you.
I'd almost be willing to rent a cornfield and mow down parts of it to shape the question, then hire a helicopter for you to hover over the field if I thought it'd help to prompt a direct reply. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:28 am Post subject: |
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mack wrote:
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| Steve, why should AlyAllen answer that question, or answer for people that she has repeatedley said she disagrees with? |
I fully recognize that she doesn't approve of the ambulance chasers' tactics and motives, but if you trace the course of my "discussion" with her you should see why I responded the way I did.
All I'm asking for is a little consistency of expectation, integrity borne of principle which leads to a willingness to admit that this problem of spokesmanship is peculiar to the Black politics in America and should be overcome for the sake of the community. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
mack wrote:
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| Steve, why should AlyAllen answer that question, or answer for people that she has repeatedley said she disagrees with? |
I fully recognize that she doesn't approve of the ambulance chasers' tactics and motives, but if you trace the course of my "discussion" with her you should see why I responded the way I did.
All I'm asking for is a little consistency of expectation, integrity borne of principle which leads to a willingness to admit that this problem of spokesmanship is peculiar to the Black politics in America and should be overcome for the sake of the community. |
Fine... I agree. As I stated earlier, I think they are former civil rights leaders given this bizarre moniker of Black leader. They will fade out. They aren't getting any younger. I personally don't think anyone will fill the void in any event. It just doesn't seem necessary or wise in any event. As far as I'm concerned, all these talking heads who aren't in political office, while sometimes informative, blur the lines and sometimes (Like with Sharpton and Jackson) become viewed as leaders when they aren't.
Maybe why this is so annoying is the simple fact that in NYC, if there is a problem Sharpton and Jackson usually don't rear their heads. The news there talks to the assemblymen and women, the borough presidents, the congressmen, the local clergy, people who actually work within the system to bring hope and change to the community. I guess people who watch the national news channels such as CNN, Fox or MSNBC don't see that and will never see that if they don't change their channels.... |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
And if I wasn't informed about voices of dissent in the black community I wouldn't have repeatedly mentioned conservative black voices aired on Fox News and the radio, nor would I have drawn a distinction between the black Left and Right. |
How often do those conservative black voices express public indignation over Clarence Thomas, Condaleeza Rice, or one of their own?
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I'll put my decade of living and working in the inner city, and my youth in desegregated military housing, not to mention my educational projects promoting black literature and the arts up against your knowledge any day of the week.
And I'm not an outsider but what sociologists refer to as an insider-outsider. |
So you've said before. Is that the new "I have black friends"? I'll believe it when I see it.
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| Regardless, you didn't answer my question directly, so I guess the font size still isn't large enough for you. |
What part of my answer do you have trouble understanding? The "public" part or the "indignation" part? I can't make it much clearer. Once again, you hear what you want to hear, and ignore the rest. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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huffdaddy whined:
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| How often do those conservative black voices express public indignation over Clarence Thomas, Condaleeza Rice, or one of their own? |
Uh, those you mention don't go around chasing ambulances or speaking on behalf of every LaShawn or Deotis. Nor do they purport to in their positions as nominated officials of the government.
So you'll need to fish for some other comeback, Cocoa Puff.
Last edited by stevemcgarrett on Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a better one than Condoleeza Rice or Clarence Thomas (both of whom deserve more credibility than Sharpton or Jackson- although I think Rice's opinions on foreign policy are dangerously outdated): Armstrong Williams. He's the conservative black columnist who was paid off by the Education Dept to write favorable columns about their policies (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-01-06-williams-whitehouse_x.htm). How this didn't catch on as a major scandal but the firing of the DAs did is beyond me.
If any of these conservative black commentators openly condemned Williams, I'd give them a lot of credit. If not, that does make them seem like hacks. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Uh, those you mention don't go around chasing ambulances or speaking on behalf of every LaShawn or Deotis. |
Are you looking at what Jackson and Sharpton say about themselves or what the black community says about them? If you can't read and understand the dissent that is there, and understand why the dissent isn't more public, then I can't help you any further. You've obviously already made up your mine.
Maybe the outsider-white-Steve could just ask the insider-black-Steve for an answer. That'd be an interesting discussion.
To clarify my other point, do the conservative black commentators ever point out what a total tool of a Supreme Court Justice Thomas is? Surely he's the poster boy for those who oppose affirmative action. Or does his conservatism let him off the hook? |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:28 am Post subject: |
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mackdaddy wrote:
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| If any of these conservative black commentators openly condemned Williams, I'd give them a lot of credit. If not, that does make them seem like hacks. |
He is and they are. But being a mouthpiece for a political organization is a far cry from claiming to speak on behalf of all those of your own race/ethnicity. The former is unethical; the latter utterly shameful.
huffdaddy wrote:
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| To clarify my other point, do the conservative black commentators ever point out what a total tool of a Supreme Court Justice Thomas is? Surely he's the poster boy for those who oppose affirmative action. Or does his conservatism let him off the hook? |
So by your estimation, the late Justice Thurgood Marshall would be a tool of the liberals. How about granting them as you would their white colleagues the same benefit of the doubt, namely, that they think and rule from the bench out of personal conviction. To deny that same benefit of the doubt to Thomas is to limit the voice of the black community too.
Incidentally, I am entirely opposed to affirmative action in college admissions as it is presently conceived and practiced in most jurisdictions. Paradoxically, this social policy also limits black achievement. But that's for another day and another thread.
P.S. Try not to pee your pants when you read this, puff fish. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:58 am Post subject: |
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That school had space under a tree that was "traditionally reserved for white people"?! 
I had to check the date on the news article to make sure it wasn't from the 60s or something. What the hell kind of 'tradition' is that? When they give new kids a tour, do they casually say "Oh that's a tree for only white students to sit under; it's just a little tradition we have"?
I don't think you one can comment on whether the black youths deserve to be charged with attempted second degree murder without knowing a lot more about the details of the attack. Did he provoke them? Did they use weapons? Did they all attack him at once? Did they keep attacking him on the ground? How long did this go on for? Why did it stop? These are just a few of the questions that have no so far been answered. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| To deny that same benefit of the doubt to Thomas is to limit the voice of the black community too. |
Thomas already limits his voice so much that duct taping his mouth shut wouldn't be noticed for several years. One only wishes that you had the same gift of staying silent.
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| P.S. Try not to pee your pants when you read this, puff fish. |
I'm sure you'd like that. Are you into water sports? You dirty pervert. |
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Fresh Prince
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Here is a copy of a written complaint that appears to have been written by a witness, which can be found at the 0:49 second mark on this site (all names have been removed):
http://www.whileseated.org/photo/003244.shtml
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| Me and ***** was walking out of the gym when all of a sudden a tan black boy came running from the side and jumped ***** and slammed his head on the concrete beam that people sometimes sit on. ***** and a group of other blacks were all standing there waiting on **** and after he was knocked out cold on the ground ***** and ***** started kicking his head for no reason at all. Me and ****looked over and there was blood pouring out of his ears and his hands were shaking because he was knocked out cold, then Mrs. **** made us go to class. |
I don't know how long the letter will remain part of this particular website as the website appears to be one-sided in favor of the "Jena 6," however it would give credence to the severity of the charges. |
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