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| Is 'ajumma' a derogatory or offensive term? |
| Yes |
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36% |
[ 11 ] |
| No |
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63% |
[ 19 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
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Message |
blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
It used to be a term of respect but because it has become something of a negative. In modern, youth oriented, stylish Korea, it has taken on traits of a plump woman who long ago stopped following trends.
While the husband's sole role in Korean society was to contribute sperm and a paycheck, a married woman traditionally raised the children, helped them with their homework, cleaned the house, paid the bills, handled the family finances, clothed her family, cared for her husband's aged parents, and took an incredibly menial job to pay off her husband's debts. Because an ajumma has little time left in the day to keep up on current fashions, Korean society has rewarded the ajumma's efforts by turning her into a symbol of uncouth backwardness.
I find it interesting that society has not turned ajussi into a pejorative. However, among the ESL crowd, we use in a pejorative sense, referring to an older Korean male hepped up on but undeserving of privilege based solely on being born with one X and one Y chromosome.
"_________________
MM2 clearly has the gift for telling stories that both inform and move the heart. Amazing for a woman with an IQ of 80. "
Bhahahahaha. I've made the sig line of two nut bar Christians. Kind of shaking your faith, ain't I? |
MM2, you sumed it up nicely... I couldn't agree more.
Haha... you found out about the human sex chromosomes.... but your body cells have an extra X chromosome, making the genotype XXY... it's called "klinefelter syndrome", you can still have your love muscle but... |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| blynch wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
It used to be a term of respect but because it has become something of a negative. In modern, youth oriented, stylish Korea, it has taken on traits of a plump woman who long ago stopped following trends.
While the husband's sole role in Korean society was to contribute sperm and a paycheck, a married woman traditionally raised the children, helped them with their homework, cleaned the house, paid the bills, handled the family finances, clothed her family, cared for her husband's aged parents, and took an incredibly menial job to pay off her husband's debts. Because an ajumma has little time left in the day to keep up on current fashions, Korean society has rewarded the ajumma's efforts by turning her into a symbol of uncouth backwardness.
I find it interesting that society has not turned ajussi into a pejorative. However, among the ESL crowd, we use in a pejorative sense, referring to an older Korean male hepped up on but undeserving of privilege based solely on being born with one X and one Y chromosome.
"_________________
MM2 clearly has the gift for telling stories that both inform and move the heart. Amazing for a woman with an IQ of 80. "
Bhahahahaha. I've made the sig line of two nut bar Christians. Kind of shaking your faith, ain't I? |
MM2, you sumed it up nicely... I couldn't agree more.
Haha... you found out about the human sex chromosomes.... but your body cells have an extra X chromosome, making the genotype XXY... it's called "klinefelter syndrome", you can still have your love muscle but... |
You know blynch, you would be hard put to find one Dave's user that wouldn't rate you as one of the biggest idiots on this board. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Only little tiny teeny weeny children call me ajumma. Koreans tend to call me agashi. Now, I'm "over the hill" by Korean standards (i.e., I'm 28 Western age, 30 Korean-age, and not currently married) but I think "ajumma" does have connotations beyond the literal meaning, so they don't use it with me.
My students are in college, and some of them returning to school, married or just slightly older than the average. If another student calls them "ajumma," believe me, it's not a compliment. It implies that they are frumpy and frazzled. "Agashi" is the preferred term for someone youthful and lovely. Remember when someone used it to refer to Princess and the hyperventilation and thrashing about that ensued?
Actually, I've noticed both young men and women resorting to "oni" instead to get around this quandry when referring to younger women who may or may not be married.
Anyway, it's not a big deal at all, though I appreciate those who have rushed to my defense. Maybe eslcafe has toughened my hide a little.  |
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blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
Only little tiny teeny weeny children call me ajumma. Koreans tend to call me agashi. Now, I'm "over the hill" by Korean standards (i.e., I'm 28 Western age, 30 Korean-age, and not currently married) but I think "ajumma" does have connotations beyond the literal meaning, so they don't use it with me.
My students are in college, and some of them returning to school, married or just slightly older than the average. If another student calls them "ajumma," believe me, it's not a compliment. It implies that they are frumpy and frazzled. "Agashi" is the preferred term for someone youthful and lovely. Remember when someone used it to refer to Princess and the hyperventilation and thrashing about that ensued?
Actually, I've noticed both young men and women resorting to "oni" instead to get around this quandry when referring to younger women who may or may not be married.
Anyway, it's not a big deal at all, though I appreciate those who have rushed to my defense. Maybe eslcafe has toughened my hide a little. |
oni, you are cool.  |
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yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've heard that "agassi" is not a well liked term, either. "Oni" if you know them well enough.
Nothing wrong with "ajumma", but I rarely, if at all, use it. |
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newton kabiddles
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Nothing wrong with ajumma. Koreans use it all the time. |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: at my wit's end
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I asked my Korean coworkers today at lunch. The consensus was that "ajumma" is impolite if you're talking to a single lady, and that "agashi" is a compliment if you're talking to an older (married) lady. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
| I asked my Korean coworkers today at lunch. The consensus was that "ajumma" is impolite if you're talking to a single lady, and that "agashi" is a compliment if you're talking to an older (married) lady. |
Thanks. It's good to know we have our own personal Research Clown in the field. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Saying "oni" works only if you're a woman. I sometimes say "nuna" to women, but many don't respond (not out of rudeness or becuase they're trying to ignore me; they just don't turn around because they don't think I'm talking to them). Older women respond to Nuna though. Younger ones I have to say "agashi" to get a response. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| Saying "oni" works only if you're a woman. I sometimes say "nuna" to women, but many don't respond (not out of rudeness or becuase they're trying to ignore me; they just don't turn around because they don't think I'm talking to them). Older women respond to Nuna though. Younger ones I have to say "agashi" to get a response. |
I know it's only *supposed* to work if you're a woman, but I've actually heard guys use it. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| Saying "oni" works only if you're a woman. I sometimes say "nuna" to women, but many don't respond (not out of rudeness or becuase they're trying to ignore me; they just don't turn around because they don't think I'm talking to them). Older women respond to Nuna though. Younger ones I have to say "agashi" to get a response. |
I know it's only *supposed* to work if you're a woman, but I've actually heard guys use it. |
And that's because they're full of gay pride and want everyone to know it. Just one of the many ways Korea's liberalising right before our very eyes. |
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DCJames
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
It used to be a term of respect but because it has become something of a negative. In modern, youth oriented, stylish Korea, it has taken on traits of a plump woman who long ago stopped following trends.
While the husband's sole role in Korean society was to contribute sperm and a paycheck, a married woman traditionally raised the children, helped them with their homework, cleaned the house, paid the bills, handled the family finances, clothed her family, cared for her husband's aged parents, and took an incredibly menial job to pay off her husband's debts. Because an ajumma has little time left in the day to keep up on current fashions, Korean society has rewarded the ajumma's efforts by turning her into a symbol of uncouth backwardness.
I find it interesting that society has not turned ajussi into a pejorative. However, among the ESL crowd, we use in a pejorative sense, referring to an older Korean male hepped up on but undeserving of privilege based solely on being born with one X and one Y chromosome.
"_________________
MM2 clearly has the gift for telling stories that both inform and move the heart. Amazing for a woman with an IQ of 80. "
Bhahahahaha. I've made the sig line of two nut bar Christians. Kind of shaking your faith, ain't I? |
uh, no. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Whether "ajumma" is rude or derogatory when applied to Korean women of any age is beside the point in this case. It's just inappropriate for someone with a functional to fluent level of English who's been here a while, to apply that term to a white woman, and then pretend ignorance of the subtext it has here. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Ajumma is a filthy word! It's amazing how many Koreans yell that trashy word in restaurants all the time.
Next time I go to a restaurant in the states I'm gonna be like "B*tch! Menu and 2 cups please!" |
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mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| Saying "oni" works only if you're a woman.... |
I know it's only *supposed* to work if you're a woman, but I've actually heard guys use it. |
And that's because they're full of gay pride and want everyone to know it. Just one of the many ways Korea's liberalising right before our very eyes. |
C'mon. My first KGF's brother called her Oni. That was 10 years ago.
I kind of picked up that habit, mainly for the hand-over-mouth giggle and inevitable hearty slap on the back.
One married woman about my age who's a close acquaintence, I call Hyoung-Nim. Also for silliness factor. heh. |
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