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crazykiwi
Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Location: new zealand via daejeon
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 Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 8:36 am Post subject: someone has sour grapes..views please |
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I have a school to add to your blacklist:
YBM ECC Daejon. There are two schools with this name, the one I refer to is in Mannyeon-dong, with Mr. Choi at the head. I completed my one year contract with this company because I wanted my money, but I should have jumped ship six months in.
accommodations: Teachers are expected to live with a roommate, which is fine for younger teachers, but for older teachers (well, I'm only 29) it would have been better for the good of all if we each had our own place to live. Personality conflicts easily got in the way of work life and made it tense for everyone. I was promised my housing to be a 5-10 minute walk from work, when in reality it was 25-30 minutes, which was not fun in the winter time. The apartments were run-down and it was like walking on eggshells to get something repaired. I waited 2 1/2 weeks for them to have my washing machine repaired! When I moved into a different apartment with two months left of my contract and asked to have the broken toilet seat replaced, they wanted me to pay for it! It was not replaced until after I left. We were given no information on how to operate the utilities, nor were we told about recycling or garbage collection. The passing of information was left to the other foreign teachers.
the job: We did have three days of observation and there was an "orientation" but even though the ad said "no experience required" we were not given much instruction on how to teach. I didn't know there were teacher's guides for most of my classes for the first six weeks and I didn't find out until my supervisor said I was not teaching well and threatened to fire me! She had assumed the person I was replacing would tell me such information when it was really her job. Every month we had meetings in which new rules and new responsibilites were thrown on us - some of which were unreasonable but it was an effort to control us. Eg. No games, no food in class (not even as rewards for good work, even though the manual specifically suggests giving candy as reward), foreign teachers are not to speak Korean (even though that would help understanding in some cases), we had to be at the school an hour before our class, even if we only had one class that required little preparation, etc. The director, Mr. Choi would walk around to every class and lurk outside the window, sometimes obviously and sometimes off to the side, to intimidate. Once in a while would have been adequate but he did not trust the teachers (we were treated like children) so he came to _every_ class. The website said "occasional Saturdays" but the reality was that most of us worked six days per week. We were allowed only three sick days for the entire year and when I called in to use my first one, I was told "well I can cover your morning classes but can you come in for the afternoon?" The reason for this is that they have no bank of available teachers to substitute. Everyone was sick a lot in the winter and there was great underlying pressure NOT to call in sick because it would mean that teachers who would normally have a break would have to use that time to teach someone else's class. Therefore, we all worked sick. This is a really unhealthy environment, I won't even begin to talk about how filthy the classrooms are.
other: near the end of my contract I received emails from two prospective teachers interested in coming to Daejon ECC. Since noone had asked my permission to give out me email address, I was surprised and responded "I don't know why they gave you my email address, because I haven't been happy here." When the director learned this, and that I had phoned to head office to complain, they made things difficult for me. On the last day of my contract I only received half of my money and I didn't get anything until halfway through my final shift. Since my replacement wouldn't be arriving until after I left Daejon, I spent several hours writing out a "book" of information about classes, students to watch out for, things about the organization of the school, about Daejon (where to go shopping), etc. I learned later that she had read it quickly the first day and the next day it had been taken from her desk. My presumtion is the acting supervisor was paranoid that I would say something bad about her and stole it, but she denied any knowledge of it's presence.
I've been so disgusted with this place. The only reason most people come to this organization - YBM ECC - is because they know they will get paid. In the year that I was there and after meeting more than a hundred people in Daejon, I met only a few people who had problems with other schools so it's worth taking a chance on other schools. I hope anyone reading this finds this helpful. I did end up getting my money, but I had to go to the office and file for it myself, and no one told me I had to do that (it's a good thing I get by well in Korean!) |
i have replied to this email personally, i put foward my views to the author. i am not impressed at all as i have worked for this school for over a year and resent the fact that this person had the audacity to blacklist my school who i had the most amazing time of my life there. please give your views on her resoning behind it and weather you think she should have done it. if anyone wants my personal views, i will see how the thread goes and reply in accordance with that.
side note, haha, im in germany on my european holiday, havin a ball, see you in jan.
laterz crazy
ps, sorry i jad to print all the email to get full effect. |
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dumass
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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After reading these forums a bit, I can see some problems about this persons general attitude:
1. He expected everything done for him.
2. He wasn�t willing to negotiate (e.g. when he was told no food he should have gone to the director and explained how the books/teachings recommend that they give treats out, and that it will make the students happier (sp?) etc.. )
3. His employer looking through the windows/spying on him while teaching seems like the normal situation. He should have just invited him in to class.
4. Re: His email given out: It would have been a bit obvious that his employer would have come down on him for telling bad things.
While the apartment situation sounded pretty bad, it looks like he had a run of the mill job at a typical hagwon. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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The school went out of it's way to hire a person with no experience. They should not be surprised at the result.
As for blaming the teacher, yes, maybe she could have tried to negotiate, but that is generally something that a person with "experience" would know.
And then they wonder why there are so many complaints on this board. 
Cheers |
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Joe Thanks
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Dudleyville
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:11 pm Post subject: another ECC casualty |
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First, this guy is a bit unrealistic but he didn�t know better. He should have, half way through his contract: don�t rely on the wangjangnim for anything! Do your job and fix your own toilet seat.
Still, �occasional Saturdays� is the biggest ECC scam on earth. It�s ALWAYS Saturdays. They did the same office-memo lie to �em. YBM are a decent company and have some solid texts, but ECC is a sham. Indentured servitude is the call of the day. He could have found this out on esl caf�, for sure.
Joe |
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crazykiwi
Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Location: new zealand via daejeon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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hey hey
just to make it clear. i am not the author of this email, and its a "she" who wrote the original email. dont want any unwanted critizism later on. as for defending her, i dont see how anyone possibly could. i have heard so many worse stories than this nit picking one. she really should have just broken her contract, which ecc ( my one anyway) allowed teachers to do before their time, no worries. as for her trying to stop other teachers from coming to korea to try it out is just not on. sure she had some points, but she should have dealt with them in a much more mature (she is 29 after all) way.
her director took her into her confidence about many aspects of the schools daily dealings, and she considered her a friend. to back stab and slag of a gtreat person such as my director is appalling and i hope this comes back to haunt her. kama, kama, kama! well cheers for your views
crazy |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe that she expected to be allowed to speak Korean to her kids during classtime. The class is for their benefit not hers.
I had a teacher at my formal school do the same thing. He was an incompetent idiot who deserved to be fired. Yet, he blacklisted the school on one of the many sites. Some waygooks give the rest of us a bad rep. |
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Joe Thanks
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Dudleyville
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Companero - sorry if it read like I was going after you - it was the teacher and others with such a mindset. "You" was used as a generalization and not in the singular sense. It�s a habit, so sorry.
The chick who wrote it (thanks for the correction) is a nutter. 1 � for picking an ECC and 2) for their silly complaints.
Koran hagwons and their troubles are cyclical: wangjangnim make it bad then some teachers make it bad. It never ends.
Cheers,
Joe
| crazykiwi wrote: |
hey hey
just to make it clear. i am not the author of this email, and its a "she" who wrote the original email. dont want any unwanted critizism later on. as for defending her, i dont see how anyone possibly could. i have heard so many worse stories than this nit picking one. she really should have just broken her contract, which ecc ( my one anyway) allowed teachers to do before their time, no worries. as for her trying to stop other teachers from coming to korea to try it out is just not on. sure she had some points, but she should have dealt with them in a much more mature (she is 29 after all) way.
her director took her into her confidence about many aspects of the schools daily dealings, and she considered her a friend. to back stab and slag of a gtreat person such as my director is appalling and i hope this comes back to haunt her. kama, kama, kama! well cheers for your views
crazy |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't mean to imply that the "teacher's" complaints were justified. I only wished to point out that it was obvious that it was the person's first job. Sure, some of that person's expectations were unrealistic, but it is just as unrealistic to expect someone with little or no experience teaching, (let alone living abroad) to act with the wisdom of someone who has 3 or 4 years of experience. (or even 1- 2)
What I am saying is that as long as "schools" seek to hire the inexperienced, they should not be surprised at what they get.
Very often ads are placed in Canadian newspapers saying things like, "no experience necessary, full training provided" and what the person recieves in the way of training is a brief tour of the hagwan, a class list and a time-table. There is very little support or guidance given, and it is little wonder that the new teachers feel alienated, mal-treated and or even abused.
I am not siding with anyone. I am only trying to point out that the school here was not entirely "blameless".
Just something to think about.
Cheers |
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Zed
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Alias wrote: |
| I can't believe that she expected to be allowed to speak Korean to her kids during classtime. The class is for their benefit not hers. |
I don't believe that she wanted to speak Korean in class for socialization or for her educational benefit. Depending on the context, a few words in Korean here and there can really keep the pace of the class going and enhance understanding. In this case it is for the benefit of the student's understanding. There is a point where it becomes too much and you have to know where this line is. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
What I am saying is that as long as "schools" seek to hire the inexperienced, they should not be surprised at what they get.
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Very well said. On the one hand they want nice saleable 23 year olds and then they seem surprised when said little mummy's boys and daddy's girls complain about the toilet seat being broken. I know we all wanna cry, "Fix it your fuggin self!" but they are only young, and have only just gotten used to wiping their bottoms for themselves. That said, I've met a few thirty-something whiny cry babies as well. Booohoooo 
So the hakwons are silly, they want their cakes and want to eat it too. Most Korean people live with their parents until they get married which is fine, but how can they expect 23 year old american and canadian kids to cope on their own in South Korea?
The dodgy hagwon and the fresh faced mommy's boy, they bloody well deserve each other  |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Good question: "How can they expect 23 year olds from abroad to cope easily in Korea?" In my experience it tends to be Koreans who have lived abroad that can relate to what foreigners are feeling in their country. Generally they are much more aware and can understand the foreigner better than someone who has not spent much time outside Korea. That said, however, someone with any intelligence or a kind heart can see that it is a bit freaky to be in such a foreign environment, and that it takes time to make adjustments, learn a little language or whatever. Some of us have been for years and still struggle with stuff due to being foreigners. |
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