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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| ...you claim to "disagree" with this war, yet defend it as being "right." |
What are you talking about? Legal or not, I disagree with this war; it is an unjust war; it is an unwise war; and continuing it at this point is throwing good money after bad. We ought to strive to define and then execute the best way to extricate ourselves from this, always with an eye on regional and our own security (besides bin Laden's machinations, Tehran lurks behind-the-scenes and would like to seize regional hegemony, smite Tel Aviv, and then do God-knows-what-else). Had I been in the Oval Office or played any other significant decision-making role between Sept. 2001 and Mar. 2003, I would have refused to plan and conduct this war from the start (I am referring to the Iraqi War and the Iraqi War only). I imagine I would have resigned like Powell, only earlier.
This notwithstanding, the antiwar people (yourself included, of course) are first-class lunatics and, thankfully, those who decide such things as "who-gets-a-seat-at-council" think like me and have generally excluded most of these screaming idiots from policy debates and policymaking.
Hope that is clear enough.
Last edited by Gopher on Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:55 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| keane wrote: |
| Fighting fire with fire is a useful tactic in certain situations. |
As long as there are mofos that insist on raping, murdering, & pillaging,
I'll be ready and willing to shoot the crap out of them. 
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of rape
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Allegations of atrocities
Uday Hussein was infamous for being a man of depraved cruelty and wanton disregard for human life. A report released on March 20, 2003, by ABC news detailed several allegations against Uday:
* As head of the Iraqi Olympic Committee, Uday oversaw the imprisonment and torture of Iraqi athletes who were deemed not to have performed to expectations. According to widespread reports, torturers beat and caned the soles of the soccer players' feet�inflicting intense pain without leaving visible marks on the rest of their bodies. Uday reportedly kept scorecards with written instructions on how many times each player should be beaten after a poor showing.[3] One defector reported that jailed soccer players were forced to kick a concrete ball after failing to reach the 1994 World Cup finals. Another defector claimed that athletes were dragged through a gravel pit and subsequently immersed in a sewage tank to induce infection in the victims' wounds.[4]
* Uday used devices of torture deriving from the Middle Ages. One of them was a 20 kg (50 lb) black iron mask in which his players were to stand up straight with in the sun for the entire day after having performed poorly in a game (the players would faint after less than an hour and be awakened by kicks of Uday's guards). Another was a pear-shaped iron tool with two handles, similar to a car jack, which he would use to tear a man's anus open.[5]
* A former Uday body double look-alike, Latif Yahia, now living in the West, asserts that Uday was unable to perform sexually without causing pain and drawing blood from his sexual partners. Yahia asserts that Uday had raped numerous women, including a visiting Russian ballerina. Yahia has since released a book, co-authored with Karl Wendl, entitled I Was Saddam's Son.
Other allegations include:
* Kidnapping young Iraqi women from the streets in order to rape them. Uday was known to intrude on parties and otherwise "discover" women whom he would later rape. Time magazine published an article in 2003 detailing his sexual brutality.[6] In one such instance, he ordered a young woman who was walking with her husband, where Uday said her husband was a nobody, despite him wearing a uniform showing him to be a captain in the Iraqi Army. Uday then ordered his men to grab the girl, to which her husband struck Uday in defense of his wife, and was apprended by Uday's bodyguards. The wife was raped and later murdered, and the husband was sentenced to death for "high treason against Saddam".
* Profligate self-indulgence in an era of widespread privation. When U.S. troops captured his mansion in Baghdad, they found a personal zoo stocked with lions and cheetahs; an underground parking garage for his collection of luxury cars; Cuban cigars inscribed with his name; and millions of dollars worth of fine wines, liquor and heroin. An HIV testing kit was also found among his personal effects.[7]
* Uday's mansion was littered with sexual paraphernalia and decorated with images depicting naked women and prostitutes obtained from internet web pages.[8]
* Usage of an Iron Maiden on persons running afoul of him.[9]
* Uday beat an army officer unconscious when the man refused to allow Uday to dance with his wife; the man later died of his injuries. Uday also shot and killed an army officer who failed to salute him.[10]
* Uday purchased or stole approximately 1,200 luxury vehicles, including a Rolls-Royce Corniche valued at over $200,000. Uday is reported to have arrived at a polling station during a referendum on his father's regime in a pink Rolls-Royce.[11]
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| ...you claim to "disagree" with this war, yet defend it as being "right." |
What are you talking about? Legal or not, I disagree with this war; it is an unjust war; it is an unwise war; and continuing it at this point is throwing good money after bad. . |
The way it has been CONDUCTED makes it unwise. The removal of Saddam and his sons was one of the more 'just" events in decades.
I agree that America should have not gone into the war...unless it was willing to do what it takes. And day by day it appears less likely.
However I also believe in the "you broke it you bought it" principle. And anyway, pulling out now, would be unwise. Even a number of the mainstream publications who are against the war (TIME and The Economist) say this and cite solid compelling reasons why. The last thing the West needs is ANOTHER failed state in that area. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Anti-war= conflict. |
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| keane wrote: |
Scott Ritter: �If you want to be anti-war, that means you have to be in conflict with those who are pro-war�
See the video. |
Of course it does. But conflict does not equal war.
Peace |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: Re: Anti-war= conflict. |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| keane wrote: |
Scott Ritter: �If you want to be anti-war, that means you have to be in conflict with those who are pro-war�
See the video. |
Of course it does. But conflict does not equal war.
Peace |
Indeed. Why are you quoting me with this point? Convenience?
Peace, friend. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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