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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Vedic knowledge purportedly is received from perfected beings who have transmitted it via disciplic succession. For anyone interested, here's a link to a long blog devoted to Vedic Cosmology:
http://vedic-cosmology.blogspot.com/
More graphically interesting, I think, is this brief YouTube clip "Mysteries of the Sacred Universe" produced by modern Vedic scientist, Dr. Richard Thompson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXO5QdV_3ug |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| endofthewor1d wrote: |
and sure the face thing is creepy. but really, if you look at enough rocks, you're bound to see a face in some of them. we're just wired that way. |
I agree.
Nut jobs.
!shoosh,
Ryst |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| tzechuk wrote: |
I don't know much about the space..... but....
I would be very surprised if there was absolutely no life form - now or before - on any of these planets we have access to.
What makes Earth so special that we are the only living things in the entire universe?! |
A lot of things make it special, but when you consider just how many other planets are out there, the chances of that special happening again are quite large. And that's just for carbon based lifeforms like us. Who's to say life can not exist in another form or that it even has to exist on a planet??? |
Spot on. It's not 100% impossible that life exists on Mars, but it's highly improbable based on the latest research. Why would NASA cover it up? Life on Mars would result in billions more money to spend on Space research. It'd be winning the lottery for them.
I am confident that there is life out there somewhere, but in our solar system? Possible, but unlikely. Conspiracy theories like that don't help. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about that video. It was interesting, and perhaps evidence, but certainly not proof. Skeptical points:
- Why would there be gigantic sculptures of faces that are only visible from a bird's eye view? When humans make sculptures, they are meant to be seen from a horizontal angle, not from above.
- Why just a face?
- Where are the other buildings? Just a gigantic face sculpture in the middle of nowhere?
- What are the chances that life on other planets would actually look like us? That seems incredible to me.
- Why would NASA cover up findings? It sounds conspiracy theoristy.
| wo buxihuan hanguoren wrote: |
| These Vedic cosmologists, how much does one of their telescopes cost? |
Hilarious. Rteacher gets his deserved flippant response.  |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| butlerian wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| tzechuk wrote: |
I don't know much about the space..... but....
I would be very surprised if there was absolutely no life form - now or before - on any of these planets we have access to.
What makes Earth so special that we are the only living things in the entire universe?! |
A lot of things make it special, but when you consider just how many other planets are out there, the chances of that special happening again are quite large. And that's just for carbon based lifeforms like us. Who's to say life can not exist in another form or that it even has to exist on a planet??? |
Spot on. It's not 100% impossible that life exists on Mars, but it's highly improbable based on the latest research. Why would NASA cover it up? Life on Mars would result in billions more money to spend on Space research. It'd be winning the lottery for them.
I am confident that there is life out there somewhere, but in our solar system? Possible, but unlikely. Conspiracy theories like that don't help. |
I was reading about Gliese 581c. It's interesting. |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| butlerian wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| tzechuk wrote: |
I don't know much about the space..... but....
I would be very surprised if there was absolutely no life form - now or before - on any of these planets we have access to.
What makes Earth so special that we are the only living things in the entire universe?! |
A lot of things make it special, but when you consider just how many other planets are out there, the chances of that special happening again are quite large. And that's just for carbon based lifeforms like us. Who's to say life can not exist in another form or that it even has to exist on a planet??? |
Spot on. It's not 100% impossible that life exists on Mars, but it's highly improbable based on the latest research. Why would NASA cover it up? Life on Mars would result in billions more money to spend on Space research. It'd be winning the lottery for them.
I am confident that there is life out there somewhere, but in our solar system? Possible, but unlikely. Conspiracy theories like that don't help. |
I was reading about Gliese 581c. It's interesting. |
Yeah. As time goes by, I'm sure we'll find more and more potentially-life harbouring planets. The future is likely to be full of surprises. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
I don't know about that video. It was interesting, and perhaps evidence, but certainly not proof. Skeptical points:
- Why would there be gigantic sculptures of faces that are only visible from a bird's eye view? When humans make sculptures, they are meant to be seen from a horizontal angle, not from above.
- Why just a face?
- Where are the other buildings? Just a gigantic face sculpture in the middle of nowhere?
- What are the chances that life on other planets would actually look like us? That seems incredible to me.
- Why would NASA cover up findings? It sounds conspiracy theoristy. |
Not to say one thing or the other about the video, but people often have constructed things that can only be seen from the air:
NASA also has their credibility on the line with every announcement they make, so there's no way they'd publicly speculate on issues like this. They don't hide things, but they don't blow anything out of proportion either.
Mars Express (that's the European probe, the sister probe to Venus Express as well) has taken a more recent image of the area:
And here's another image taken by the same probe that seems to be of the other side:
Here's Cydonia with the face towards the lower right:
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
Not to say one thing or the other about the video, but people often have constructed things that can only be seen from the air:
NASA also has their credibility on the line with every announcement they make, so there's no way they'd publicly speculate on issues like this. They don't hide things, but they don't blow anything out of proportion either. |
Good points. To the second one, though, the accusation was that NASA used special filtering to reduce what was plainly visible beforehand. But he gave no justification for that. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| endofthewor1d wrote: |
| i found the 'trees' particularly unconvincing. |
Lets see...
Forest on earth..
vs.Supposed forest on Mars..
i'll agree that the mars feature looks vaguely, vaguely similar to an aerial view of forest. But it could just as easily be inorganic matter. If you look at the rock formations next to the 'forest' , these are formations that are obviously not eroded or weathered. also- the 2 pictures are at different magnification.
| tzechuk wrote: |
I would be very surprised if there was absolutely no life form - now or before - on any of these planets we have access to.
What makes Earth so special that we are the only living things in the entire universe?! |
thats the amazing thing. the balance of conditions, gasses, atmosphere that makes life on earth possible is so finely tuned- that the likelihood of it occuring anywhere else, let alone on earth- is staggering. Its not a case of 'life should be on every planet'. |
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dutchy pink
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Spinoza, Do you believe what he said? Not that life doesn't exist on Mars, but his argument for it?
I generally disagree with his 'proof." he is privy to a lot more information than I am, so I'll cut him some slack. But, he says these are only 0.001 or more of the images yet to come. What self respecting scientist would make a prediction knowing he is only seeing 1 out of a 1000 or more outcomes/proofs? Pure mathematics says the odds of being wrong are 99.9%.
late in the 2nd minute he says, " look at these perfect triangles...." Nowhere were there perfect triangles, and if there were that would hardly be proof.
Look at the Golden Ratio. 1.618... It manifests itself in many ways, from rabbits fucking, to leafs, snails, da vince, etc...
Nature is capable of producing symetry, why not on Mars too?
It is interesting, and I'm in the front row rooting for life elsewhere, but his argument doesn't do it for me. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| the balance of conditions, gasses, atmosphere that makes life on earth possible is so finely tuned- that the likelihood of it occuring anywhere else, let alone on earth- is staggering. |
No, not staggering at all. Within the Solar System, maybe. But we're talking about roughly 300 billion galaxies with 300 billion stars within each one, each with a few thousand possible areas where life could form along with all the rogue planets and who knows what in between, and also the fact that life survives on Earth in amazingly extreme locations as well as the fact that there's no rule that life needs to be based on carbon. The chance of there not being life somewhere outside the Earth is zero. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Gatsby and twg - I'm of the opinion that even in images that are unflattering to the 'face' hypothesis, it still looks artificial. |
See this face?
Your mind constructed it out of three circles and a rectangle because the human brain is wired to recognize faces. But in both these cases, there is no face. |
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dutchy pink
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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yes, life on Earth based on Carbon and Oxygen are a most recent phenomena.
These elements are in no way fundamental to life.
Early life on Earth breathed Hydrogen, which is the most abundant element in the known Universe.
It stands to reason.... |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Astronomers are not geologists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Van_Flandern
According to his wiki page he's "an astronomer who specializes in celestial mechanics." The doesn't much sound like he has any expertise in planetary geology.
Spinoza, I'm curious if you still think it's a face based on the ESA photos Mith has posted above.
Bear in mind, the human mind is wired to see faces. Face = mother = food. It's called pareidolia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia
If there are trees on Mars, why haven't the rovers spotted any? Can you have trees in the abscense of any other kind of vegetation? Wouldn't we see bushes etc? As well, wouldn't the atmosphere betray their existence? You would expect to find gases in certain proportions if there were forests on Mars. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I�m gonna play devil�s advocate with some folks' observations (with my comments in bold)�..
| endofthewor1d wrote: |
| tzechuk wrote: |
I don't know much about the space..... but....
I would be very surprised if there was absolutely no life form - now or before - on any of these planets we have access to.
What makes Earth so special that we are the only living things in the entire universe?! |
i think earth is special enough such that we are the only living things in the solar system.
i just watched the video. i'm not convinced. i'll give the guy credit for trying really hard.
i found the 'trees' particularly unconvincing. and i didn't like how he presented his 'facts' either. 'if you saw this on earth, you'd say it's a tree.' no. that's not what i'd say. i'd say it's an unidentifiable roundish blob. after the idea that it's a tree were suggested to me, i'd say 'yeah, i could maybe see that.� Well, I thought they looked clearly like trees, certainly not blobs. There were details such as evidence of elevation, shadows cast on the surface, complex branch structure. The most straightforward explanation for the appearance of something like this on the surface is that it is vegetation, surely? What ever it is, our, certainly my, preconceptions of the Martian surface are called into question.
and sure the face thing is creepy. but really, if you look at enough rocks, you're bound to see a face in some of them. we're just wired that way. the man on the moon. the 'old man of the mountain' in new hampshire.
it's already pretty unlikely that if there is any life at all on mars, it's anything more than some microbes. (that's not to say that microbes wouldn't be awesome!) and even if we stretch our imaginations further and say that larger life on mars exists, do you think it would look exactly like us? and if they've got the time to build giant faces in the rocks, where are their cities or other signs of civilization? Maybe they didn�t look exactly like us, but perhaps similar, given it�s standard science that Mars was once a very Earth-like planet. Other signs of civilization may be evident elsewhere on the surface or maybe marsanomalyresearch.com has it right by identifying several already. A lot of their findings are extremely speculative, to say the least, however. Much of Mars� evidence of civilization might have been taken out in the cataclysm though. Still, 0.1% of Mars at high resolution yielded some bizarre crap.
as for those other things, the tubes and the triangles and the craters and whatnot... i don't know. but i'm not going to jump to the conclusion that there is human life on mars because i personally can't identify some triangles. it's that sort of thinking that leads to religion.Dr Van Flandern didn�t say whether he believed there are creatures still there. That�s a total mystery and the least likely scenario, you feel.
i'm just going to need more than some old guy's hopes to convince me.He�s not just some old guy. Here�s his resume: http://www.metaresearch.org/home/about%20meta%20research/resume.asp .....�the hopes of some old guy� is a bit dysphemistic, surely? |
Last edited by SPINOZA on Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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