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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Bobster wrote
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| Do I need this stuff? Do I need a bunch of people making my wallet thinner by criminal behavior, and some others spreading the stereotype around by justifying that behavior with philosophy online, stuff that would never hurt them personally because they think they don't have a stake in this place? Do I need to hear a bunch of my colleagues taiking about how the laws of a country they are spending a short time living in are wrong and unjust, for no other reason than they do things different here than back home? WHO, really needs that? |
I really hope this is coming from one of the few F-2's that are actually paying income tax on all their privates. I hope, Bob, that you went down to your local education office and registered and then the taxation office to get your certificate. Because if not, then you might be something that you don't really like...a hypocrite. I only know of one F-2 that reports all his income and this is because he owns a hagwon. Everyone else does their privates on the side and does not inform the tax authorities of the money they make. Which, of course, is illegal.
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| I came THIS close today to losing a private gig - I'm an F-2 holder, I can do that stuff - just because some Korean mom heard stuff on TV that made her think foreigners just come here to make easy money, use drugs and fornicate with young Korean girls. Money almost out of my pocket because of stupid kids right out of school thinking they can be teachers who don't realize they aren't in college anymore. |
I don't believe this either. If you had lost that gig, I don't think you could have put all the blame at the foot of those who got caught. If you can't convince a mother of your worth as a teacher, then that if partly your problem. Especially has anyone seeing you would know that you have nothing in common with those 'others'.
That is why I am not bothered by this. I have no connection to the people who were caught. I have nothing in common with the people who get caught and their actions has no effect on my earning potential as an F-2. I am everything they are not....qualified, experience, stable (in that I am not going home any time soon) and I already have my Korean girl so no threat to the young women of Korean. Send them home...more opportunities for me and a chance to charge more money as I am NOT like them.
Heck, I am much more worried about F-2's coming on and talking about the money they make as one day the old taxation guys might start poking their noses where they do belong but are not particularily wanted. |
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Tokki1
Joined: 14 May 2007
Location: The gap between the Korean superiority and inferiority complex
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Friend of mine got busted with the other 23. He's hooped.
Our school was raided and we were all tested. All clean.
But seriously, check the link in the OP (the second one.)
Um...I'm from Vancouver (Vansterdam). Seriously W13,000,000 for 1.4 pounds? LOL talk about upping the street value for dramatic effect. Thirteen grand? WHATEVER! Funniest *beep* ever  |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott in Incheon wrote: |
I really hope this is coming from one of the few F-2's that are actually paying income tax on all their privates. I hope, Bob, that you went down to your local education office and registered and then the taxation office to get your certificate. Because if not, then you might be something that you don't really like...a hypocrite. I only know of one F-2 that reports all his income and this is because he owns a hagwon. Everyone else does their privates on the side and does not inform the tax authorities of the money they make. Which, of course, is illegal.
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You can add me to that list as well. I'm an F5 and own my own business. And yes, I pay a shite load of taxes. |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
| What's really the difference between a teacher who chooses to smoke a joint in the evening or on the weekend after work and a teacher who chooses to do the same with a beer or a glass of wine? |
Man, you're really refusing to let this die, aren't you? The last bus to Naverland indignation left yesterday. |
Indytrucks:
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polarbearbrad
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: I have a question. |
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In Canada, at one time, possession was a crime. If you were busted for pot, then you got a criminal record.
With that said, if it is on your record, and the school NOW wants a copy of your records, are you going to be fired for something that happened 10 years ago?
I would not put it past them to make this conclusion:
Did drugs in the past=criminal=fire them now.
Do YOU want to be the one to find out if that is where they are taking these retroactive crim checks?
Personally I have no sympathy for those idiots and I am so clean I squeak but on principle, crim checks and NOT telling you what they consider "crimes that would affect ones ability to teach" is a little too encompassing.
What do you think?
PBB |
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mcgeezer
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Couple of things:
1.Why is it relevant in the story that the teachers possibly made an extra amount of money teaching private lessons? Is it an attempt to tarnish the reputations of english teahers as 'money hungry pirates'? I mean the guy who wrote the friggin article, not to mention the entire police force must know someone who is being taught semi-legally by a native speaker!
2. How did these guys manage to get caught? I mean let's imagine for a second that these guys did know the seriousness of smoking dope in Korea....surely they wouldn't go around flaunting the fact that they had a hashpipe in their pocket! I mean, this was a serious biker-gang style drug bust (i mean for the number of people caught) there must have been some kind of pre-raid survaillance or intel undertaken....If I'm not mistaken, weren't they busted ACTUALLY BURNING THE STUFF? Surely that wasn't a coincidance right? |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| Snowmeow wrote: |
| I know I am a little late in the thread with this but I wonder, if drug testing becomes necessary I wonder who will have to pay the bill? The teacher, no doubt. According to a contact who is a doctor with the Canadian Center for Ethics in Sport (CCES) drug tests from urine cost $200. I know that the testing may differ due to the substances being tested for, but I wouldn't want teachers to be stuck having to pay. |
You can thank those idiots in Gangnam for that. And everybody else who feels it is fine to smoke dope in Korea. |
Or you can thank the Korean government and most of the world for that matter for upholding an unfair and unequal law.
The English teachers who got caught were idiots no doubt, but I have to say that most of my anger is directed towards the unjust laws.
Cultural relativism is bull$hit.
The Saudi's are wrong for beheading homosexuals. The Chinese are wrong for limiting freedom of religion. The Americans are wrong for not allowing homoesexuals from to legally enter a marriage. The North Koreans are wrong for just about everything. The Irish were wrong for banning abortion.
Western liberal culture is not perfect, but it is the best system in the world. Liberty (God I sound like George Bush and I can't stand the guy) is something that every human being should be afforded.
However, with this liberty should come strong laws to portect individuals from one another. However, if somebody is doing something in their own privact and not hurting anyone, then it's nobodies buisness.
Drug addicts should not go to jail. Reahab is the better soution. |
Personal feelings are not the issue here. Obey the law or suffer the consequences. Period.
It's idiots like these that make it tougher for the rest of us in the long run. They tar us by their actions. And then the media feels perfectly justified in painting us all in the same light. All it would take is a few K-netizens with passable English to come here and translate a few of the comments to the mainstream media "See even the ones who don't do drugs support doing drugs" That would be the spin they put on it anyway. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Wha...?! Um, because immigrants change the way a country has to operate. Immigration is a source of population growth and cultural change, all kinds of economic, social and political controversy...certainly has been in the US. The shop next door to my Dad's is owned by Koreans, but here I can't own a shop. People hop over to the US to have their babies for that US passport but if I had a kid here it wouldn't be Korean. I'm done with this double standard. It makes me feel very "reciprocity in immigration law or screw you go home".
As far as these poor fools caught... well, people seperate into the 'it's illegal' and 'it's stupid that it's illegal' camps. Then there's the "only losers do drugs" group, which I'm really not gonna touch on since throughout history too many wonderful, brilliant people have consumed a variety of drugs and continued to have productive lives. Yes, it's illegal, it sucks they got caught because a) it's inconsequential (pot use, i mean) and b) the punishment is absurdist for the crime (but not just here in Korea). I feel bad for them. I wouldn't wish punishment of foreign prison on anyone short of seriously violent offenders. And all of you who think they deserve 'everything and then some' that they get kinda creep me out.[/quote]
A couple of things here.
In regards to your first paragraph we are NOT immigrants...we didn't come to this country to settle down (at least the majority of us didn't). We are guest workers here (again the majority of us are). So it does not apply. Neither are the DDD workers (again the majority) There are very few actual immigrants to Korea that are not Korean. Same in many Asian countries. How many people immigrate from America to China say?
As for the second paragraph if they'd been discreet about it I might feel a little sorry for them...but come on man , they flaunted it. It was almost like they were daring the police to arrest them. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
Personal feelings are not the issue here. Obey the law or suffer the consequences. Period. |
What's wrong with having and expressing personal feelings on this issue. I'm sure a few opinions have been changed on this thread for both sides.
So are you suggesting if we disagree with a law, that we should just shut up and accept it.
I see how your screen name is The_Conservative and thus you political ideology is based on "conserving" the status quo.
But some of us liberals here feel change and other ways of thinking is perfectly okay, and the best way to go about this is through dialogue.
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| It's idiots like these that make it tougher for the rest of us in the long run. They tar us by their actions. And then the media feels perfectly justified in painting us all in the same light. |
Koreans are going to go after foreigners in this country no matter what. It's an us versus them mentality here especially amongst the netizens and the media.
I heven't experienced any negative side effects since the story broke. Have you?
And frankely I could care less what some segments of Korean society think of my lot considering the baggage that I see in this country.
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| All it would take is a few K-netizens with passable English to come here and translate a few of the comments to the mainstream media "See even the ones who don't do drugs support doing drugs" That would be the spin they put on it anyway. |
At least they would hear some other forms of opinion for a change.
If there wasn't any Western intervention in the country (which includes cultural intervention) this place would still be a backward slave state*. Forgive me for sounding pompus, but dissenting views are needed in any country for it to mature and grow. Even if it comes from a foreigner.
I know that the Japanese ended the nobi slave state, but we can just look to North Korea (without Western intervention) and see a modern day slave state. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| mack4289 wrote: |
| We're taxpaying members of Korean society and we're subject to their laws. Why shouldn't we be involved in a debate about the legitimacy of those laws? It seems strange to say that we have no business debating the merits of the legal and political system we live under, even if we're just here for a short period of time. |
Somebody actually told you that you are part of Korean society? Who are you voting for in the elections this December? We pay taxes, but most of us are happy to do so because we're paying them at a much lower than we would back home. "members of Korean society?"
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| Isn't the purpose of this place idle discussion? |
When this site works best, it's a place for us to share information and discuss important issues that can either make our daily lives better or bring detriment to ourselves or people we love. Frankly, all this discussion here by people trying to defend or justrify these selfish idiots in Gangnam just reinforces the stereotypes you mentioned about foreigners. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| So Bobster, do you pay taxes on your privates? |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Sorry endo but that statement: If there wasn't any Western intervention in the country (which includes cultural intervention) this place would still be a backward slave state*. ...is both offensive and I'm more sorry to say idiotic and arrogant...but perhaps you were just going for shock value...otherwise you sound an awful lot like a crusader or a padre out to convert and civilize the barbarian natives.... 
Now...this I find is a pretty sober piece of advice on dugs in Korea. It has a hefty dose of reality:
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Foreigners� Drug Use
Appeared in Korea Times on September 7, 2007.
Dear Professor Sean Hayes: I have been charged with the consumption and possession of drugs. I am being held at a detention center south of Seoul. I was arrested in Itaewon and tested positive for THC (marijuana). My home was searched and they found marijuana in my house. What can I do? I don�t want to serve time in jail. Nervously awaiting my fate (summation of a phone call).
Dear Nervous: A major Korean TV network did a comprehensive story on the criminal behavior of English teachers in Korea. In the story, one Canadian teacher contended that two out of every 10 English teachers use drugs and many teachers use fake diplomas. Obviously, the teacher overstated the problem. If these new stories spread, I suspect an increasing number of arrests and prosecutions.
Do not do drugs in Korea. Leave Korea if you have a fake diploma. Eventually you will be caught. I have given this advice in other articles, but regretfully some readers have not heeded my advice.
In all serious criminal cases in Korea, an attorney with substantial experience in handling criminal matters for foreigners is needed. Nervous, it is imperative that you hire an attorney. If you don�t have money to hire one, call your parents and friends and get the money. I had many defendants� parents charge up credit cards and put second mortgages on their homes.
In most criminal investigations involving drugs, a police officer will obtain information that a certain person is using or selling drugs from other suspects or from undercover agents/informants. After the police arrest you they test you for drugs, search your home and if they believe that you are involved in �hard� drugs or have distributed drugs, they will hold you and request a detention order pending trial.
During the investigation the prosecutor will interrogate through a translator. Usually the questions and answers are a translated into English and Korean, respectively, and recorded in Korean. The suspect is then requested to review and sign the interrogation record that is in Korean. All too often the interrogation record is not an exact reproduction of what was said. The prosecutors often try to encourage certain answers in order to charge more serious crimes. It is strongly advised to obtain an attorney before any statements are made to the prosecutor or police. This will normally lead to a much better outcome for the defendant.
American Attorney Sean Hayes is a professor of law at Kookmin University and Researcher for the Constitutional Court. Direct questions to [email protected] or www.ahnse.blogspot.com. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Look at North Korea. It's a slave state right now. You don't think the South would be the same without the UN and in particular the Americans saving its azz during the Korean War?
I'm offended that you're offended!
Again Homer. do you pay taxes on your privates? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| mcgeezer wrote: |
Couple of things:
1.Why is it relevant in the story that the teachers possibly made an extra amount of money teaching private lessons? Is it an attempt to tarnish the reputations of english teahers as 'money hungry pirates'? I mean the guy who wrote the friggin article, not to mention the entire police force must know someone who is being taught semi-legally by a native speaker!
2. How did these guys manage to get caught? I mean let's imagine for a second that these guys did know the seriousness of smoking dope in Korea....surely they wouldn't go around flaunting the fact that they had a hashpipe in their pocket! I mean, this was a serious biker-gang style drug bust (i mean for the number of people caught) there must have been some kind of pre-raid survaillance or intel undertaken....If I'm not mistaken, weren't they busted ACTUALLY BURNING THE STUFF? Surely that wasn't a coincidance right? |
1. I tis common practice in many countries to associate one breaking of the law with another. They broke the law by doing privates and the media/prosecutor is trying to tie that in.
2. I thought I read that an ex-GF ratted them out. |
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mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| mack4289 wrote: |
| We're taxpaying members of Korean society and we're subject to their laws. Why shouldn't we be involved in a debate about the legitimacy of those laws? It seems strange to say that we have no business debating the merits of the legal and political system we live under, even if we're just here for a short period of time. |
Somebody actually told you that you are part of Korean society? Who are you voting for in the elections this December? We pay taxes, but most of us are happy to do so because we're paying them at a much lower than we would back home. "members of Korean society?"
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| Isn't the purpose of this place idle discussion? |
When this site works best, it's a place for us to share information and discuss important issues that can either make our daily lives better or bring detriment to ourselves or people we love. Frankly, all this discussion here by people trying to defend or justrify these selfish idiots in Gangnam just reinforces the stereotypes you mentioned about foreigners. |
Unless I've missed something, we all seem to agree these guys are idiots. It was dumb to smoke weed because it's illegal. But whether or not it should be illegal is a debate worth having.
The "members of Korean society" thing- yeah, that's not a good way to put it. At the very least, we're part of it in the sense that we're subject to their laws.
Personally, I don't buy that these pot arrests, or our discusssions about them, will make things noticeably worse for foreigners here. They want to learn English and they need native speakers for that. I don't see that changing for a long time. |
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