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newton kabiddles
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Anyway, I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that "infinite space equals infinite matter". Why are they necessarily linked? Matter can't exist without space but space sure seems to be able to exist without matter (all dogs have tails but a tail does not imply a dog). Do you have any scientific evidence for this claim? |
No, no scientific evidence, just my personal observation. I believe we can only exist and perceive existence if space and matter exist simulateously. They are inseperable and can not exist independently. They are one in the same. Space, in a sense, is invisible non-physical matter, and matter is physical space. All exists, some perceived as space, some as matter.
Let's say for example all is in reverse, that is; our bodies and all that we now perceive as physical matter is space, and all that we now perceive as space is matter. So our fingers and keyboards would be space, and as we moved our "invisible" fingers through matter there would be no resistance, but as we touched the invisible keys of space there would be resistance. We would then end up perceiving there being more of whatever we see as NOT our body/mind.
Our current state lead us to believe there is more space than matter, but if we could somehow leave our bodies and exist as non-physical "space matter", I guess then we would perceive there to be more matter than space. It all depends on a being's state, position in the universe.
Many people come to the conclusion that since they perceive matter as moving rapily through space it must be moving away from central explosion point, but that is no different than believing the Earth is the center of the universe. If matter is moving than space is moving, they define each other equally. There is no central point, no beginning, no end, it's all unknown. But we're essentially physical beings, so naturally we position ourselves in space.
How can you be so sure space can exist without matter, but then matter can't exist without space? What's the difference? |
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newton kabiddles
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
I had trouble with this too. I thought the universe, by definition was *everything*, including space. I can understand the theory of an expanding universe with (really truly) nothing outside its borders but actually grasping it is quite beyond me. |
As I comment above, imagine you're a dot on an expanding balloon. You were born into a 2D world. You can't conceive of a 3D world. The balloon is expanding. The other dots seem to be moving away from you. But the space is actually increasing. Since we're locked into a 2D world, this expansion seems counter intuitive, although you could easily describe it with math. |
You're viewing the universe as if it's centralized and expanding outward, but the universe has no boundary in any direction. Nothing is speeding up or slowing down, and light is traveling in all directions. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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newton kabiddles
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Theory and observations suggest that very early in the history of the universe..... |
The history of the universe! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| newton kabiddles wrote: |
| How can you be so sure space can exist without matter, but then matter can't exist without space? What's the difference? |
I can see space with no matter. I could look in a telescope and see the next galaxy over and not see matter between this one and the next one. I can imagine collecting all the matter in a given area of outer space and moving it over to another part of outer space. I can imagine that space now being empty of matter and getting along just fine. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| newton kabiddles wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
I had trouble with this too. I thought the universe, by definition was *everything*, including space. I can understand the theory of an expanding universe with (really truly) nothing outside its borders but actually grasping it is quite beyond me. |
As I comment above, imagine you're a dot on an expanding balloon. You were born into a 2D world. You can't conceive of a 3D world. The balloon is expanding. The other dots seem to be moving away from you. But the space is actually increasing. Since we're locked into a 2D world, this expansion seems counter intuitive, although you could easily describe it with math. |
You're viewing the universe as if it's centralized and expanding outward, but the universe has no boundary in any direction. Nothing is speeding up or slowing down, and light is traveling in all directions. |
The evidence of red shifts seems to point to a universe that is both expanding and the rate of expansion is increasing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip
The balloon example is only used to illustrate how things like galaxies have the illusion of moving when in fact it's the very fabric of space that's expanding. I'm not sure what your light comment has to do with anything. |
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