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Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11
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thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject:

ajgeddes wrote:

BJWD wrote:

ajgeddes wrote:

BJWD wrote:

The Bobster wrote:

People are free to talk any crap they want about America - heck, I do all the time - but they DO get a little thin-skinned when a hint is dropped on their own laps that their country might not be any great shakes either.

I find that this is very true. People all around the world slam America and yet turn into defensive little children when finding their own home criticized. Canadians often mistake me for American when I discuss the disgraceful plight of Native Canadians.. Why would a Canadian criticize Canada (beyond calling Harper Bush's lapdog)?

*beep*, nobody criticizes Canada more than Canadians.

I do not agree.

Not a surprise coming from you.

And that isn't a surprise coming from you.

etc etc.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject:

TECO wrote:

Canadians are the most self-righteous people I've met in my travels.

This has been my experience too. Though, it is coming from me.

The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject:

Bramble wrote:

The Bobster wrote:

I've asked you many times to stop attacking me. I'm telling you now for your own good - it will never work. You just don't have the rocks it would take to go against me and win.

Did you read my post? Including the quote from the ALF site? Why bother arguing if you're not going to read the other person's posts?

Did it ever occur to you that you bore people with your constant attacks and insults that result in deflecting the discussion away from the topic and into a one-on-one arguument between the two of us? Stay away from me. I've said it many times, and I'll say it again. You cannot hurt me, no matter how much you try. You just don't have the stones for the job. You are wasting your time and everyone else's.

You support, defend and endorse a terrorist organization. That is a fact, and you have no business voicing even ONE SINGLE WORD of opinion about the atrocities commited upon my country by fanatics when you yourself applaud other fanatics who employ similar means.

End of story, and leave me alone. You make me weary, and I'm sure many others feel the same.

nateium

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject:

jinks wrote:

nateium wrote:

jinks wrote:

One thing that surprises many U.S citizens when they travel the world is the fact that other people are very happy living in their own countries and are actually NOT climbing fences to try and get into the USA.

Sure not everyone is clamoring to get a USA visa, but that's not the point. I challenge you to find a statistic from another country that takes more immigrants on a yearly basis.

But, that IS the point. I want to rebutt the argument made by one or two posters here, perpetuating the myth that that more people want to leave their own countries and live in the U.S.A than are willing to stay put in their own homelands. This was the point of my argument, not whether the U.S takes more or less immigrants than other countries.

I'm not going to claim to know the mind of the first poster, but when I first read his post, I made the immediate and automatic assumption that he was not refering to developed countries. It's obvious to anyone, that Aussies, Brits, Kiwis, or even the French etc. are not lining up to come live in America. I don't think even the most patriotic gun toting nationalist American moron would believe this....

My guess is that the posters' hyperbole was intented to show that there is still a huge desire in less developed countries to come to America. In the developing parts of the world where I have traveled I have heard very frequently, people expressing a plan or wish to live in the US. In Haiti, Venezuela, Thailand, and especially the Philipines I heard this almost daily when I met local people. Even in more proud and nationalist places like Brazil, and South Korea I've heard this. In fact, a good number of the Koreans in my adult conversation classes are planning on moving to the US or other countries.

In fact, more than any anti-American comments or sentiments, I've heard people say "I'd like to live in/go to America someday; including the vietnamese guy in my Korean language classes this week and the Bengali guy in an English club I was in only this week.

When you travel in developing countries you can really see alot of happy well adjusted local people proud of their own culture and country; this is true. But seriously, pole them, and see how many of them would rather live in the US. Every year at least 2 million new immigrants come legally and illegally to the United States, so it's not hard to imagine that there are tens of even hundreds of millions of people who would like to come.

You could surely call that a "clamor." OF course, if they know anything about those places, they would probably also live in places like Canada, Australia, or New Zealand. But, those countries have much smaller populations, and cannot accept anywhere near the same numbers. This is the point.

Last edited by nateium on Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject:

I agree with your post 1000%, but I did catch your Freudian slip...

nateium wrote:

But seriously, pole them..

Bramble

Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject:

The Bobster wrote:

Bramble wrote:

The Bobster wrote:

I've asked you many times to stop attacking me. I'm telling you now for your own good - it will never work. You just don't have the rocks it would take to go against me and win.

Did you read my post? Including the quote from the ALF site? Why bother arguing if you're not going to read the other person's posts?

News bulletin from me to you: I will participate in any thread I please, and express any opinion I please, regardless of whether you like it or not. You are the one whose behaviour on these boards is consistently over the line, and you're the one who needs to stop engaging in harassment and personal attacks. I don't take orders from bullies.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject:

http://ec.europa.eu/research/rtdinfo/special_rh/article_138_en.html

nateium

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11

Big_Bird wrote:

And secondly, if I were an immigrant from a 3rd world country, I'd probably aim for a country like the UK or Australia where I could get social security until I was on my feet.

What really better to get on your feet an make a life in the long run, social security or low unemployment? I'm not trying to be a patriotic arse at all; I'm genuinely curious to know why you think immigrants have a better chance in the long run in a place like the UK. Do you have some links etc.?

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject:

Bramble wrote:

The Bobster wrote:

Bramble wrote:

The Bobster wrote:

I've asked you many times to stop attacking me. I'm telling you now for your own good - it will never work. You just don't have the rocks it would take to go against me and win.

Did you read my post? Including the quote from the ALF site? Why bother arguing if you're not going to read the other person's posts?

But you do support terrorists.

Bramble

Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

Bramble wrote:

The Bobster wrote:

Bramble wrote:

The Bobster wrote:

I've asked you many times to stop attacking me. I'm telling you now for your own good - it will never work. You just don't have the rocks it would take to go against me and win.

Did you read my post? Including the quote from the ALF site? Why bother arguing if you're not going to read the other person's posts?

But you do support terrorists.

Sigh.

Perhaps it's time to start a new thread? I don't have time now, but maybe later.

flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:10 am Post subject:

Bramble wrote:

What steps do you take to avoid killing insects in your daily life?

If a fly lands on my bacon double-cheeseburger, I make sure to brush it off before I take a bite.

endofthewor1d

Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:44 am Post subject:

The Bobster wrote:

endofthewor1d wrote:

really, dude. if that isn't an implication that you think canada sucks and the sun shines out of america's ass, please give me a hypothetical example of something one might say that would more clearly imply that one thought so.

Um, how about if I said, just hypothetically, you see, that "Canada sucks and the sun shines out of America's ass."

that wouldn't be implying it. that would be saying it verbatim.

The Bobster wrote:

That would clearly state what you assert I am implying. Your problem, though, is that I never said nor implied it - the Canadian dude DID definitely imply that 2500 people died in the Twin Towers for some (unstated, but presumably good) reason.

but he didn't actually say "2500 people died in the twin towers for some (unstated, but presumably good) reason." so by the standard by which you hold yourself accountable to implication, he also did not imply it.

The Bobster wrote:

He didn't want to actually SAY that, because any fool would know it would lead to fisticuffs in short order. But did he imply it? Yes, he did.

just like you wouldn't go around actually saying 'my country is better than your country', because that would make you seem like a d1ck.

The Bobster wrote:

Did you notice that what you are criticizing me for saying is something I intentionally refrained from speaking out loud?

you said it on here.

The Bobster wrote:

Instead, I commented on a maple leaf sewn on a backpack, and the reasons for it. He could have laughed it off, I guess, or bit his tongue like I did. He didn't. People are free to talk any crap they want about America - heck, I do all the time - but they DO get a little thin-skinned when a hint is dropped on their own laps that their country might not be any great shakes either.

dude. i completely understand where you're coming from. i'm not defending the other guy in any way. i'm just saying that you can't accuse someone of implying something that they didn't actually come right out and say if you aren't going to hold yourself to the same standard.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:01 am Post subject:

My question: Why do so many of the kind of conversations reported in the OP involve a Canadian, and relatively few get reported that involve other nationalities?

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:49 am Post subject:

Pligganease wrote:

Dude...

From your link:

Quote:

The Animal Liberation Front (ALF) carries out direct action against animal abuse in the form of rescuing animals and causing financial loss to animal exploiters, usually through the damage and destruction of property.

Are you implying that the only way to instill terror is to hurt people? I don't know about you, but if the building I work in as a janitor was detonated overnight, I'd probably feel terror.

She has already pointed out that they don't bomb to take life. Some people might argue that an animal's life is more important than mere inanimate property. I have some sympathy for that position.

Bobster is trying to make out that Bramble supports the destruction of human life. In this he is being extremely dishonest and rather vile.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Conversations with non-Americans about 9/11

nateium wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

And secondly, if I were an immigrant from a 3rd world country, I'd probably aim for a country like the UK or Australia where I could get social security until I was on my feet.

Perhaps because I am now a parent, I am much more risk averse, and aware that there are 2 small creatures that depend entirely on me and my partner. If I were from a 3rd world country, I would likely be even more aware of how someone can be cut down by an accident or poor health, and more concerned about what might happen to my children if things went wrong in a country with a smaller safety net. I doubt I would head for the UK though, if I could get into somewhere like NZ or Canada. I would not pay too much attention to a slight difference in employment statistics. It's not THAT difficult to find work in the UK, bloody hell!

I met a lot of people in the 3rd world who talked about their wish to emigrate to Australasia, and even more talk about Canada.

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