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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Non-indigenous people have rights too. If I shot a cop I would go to jail for a long time. I don't see why they don't. |
Um, difficulty here. You are saying non-indigenous people (white boys) have the right to be sent to jail for shooting cops. This is a 'right' in Canada?
This is a peculiar use of the word 'right' to us ignorant Yankees, but I will support you in your claim to the right to be sent to jail, if that is what you want. Nothing is too good for our northern fellow pale face brothers. Maybe you can meet the Bubba of your dreams. |
He was saying that if indigenous people can shoot a cop and get away with it, why can't non-indigenous people? (Hint: it's called sarcasm)
And non-indigenous people are not just white boys, but any immigrant of ANY skin colour.
Poor form...you can do better than that. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Canadians simply have no idea how bad it is on the reservations.
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In my experience, we know how bad it is. We just refuse to take responsibility for it. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| (Hint: it's called sarcasm) |
I know what he was saying. I was being sarcastic.  |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Canada Opposes UN Declaration On Rights Of Indigenous |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
The UN General Assembly on Thursday adopted the non-binding declaration protecting the human, land and resources rights of the world's 370 million indigenous peoples, despite the no vote from Canada, which was joined in its opposition by Australia, New Zealand and the United States. |
So all the countries that actually have to deal with indigenous populations are opposed. They're probably the only ones who even bothered to read the thing. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Leavingkorea wrote: |
I do a lot of work with First Nations and Metis and it drives me a bit nuts (although I can never show it). Basically the white man is still blamed for all the ills of the Native people and is not to be trusted. If I go to the communities to talk about an issue, I'm totally ignored and not trusted at all. I need a local native with me to get somewhere and generally it's better to just send them and to stay at the office.
It's really tough to handle. They have so much money thrown at them and have every advantage there is when it comes to education and employment yet they are a total disaster as a rule. It's very frustrating to deal with.
Oh the stories I could tell about the waste, manipulation of the system and the general B.S. of it all. |
have there been books written in the first-person narrative to share what is going on from an outsiders perspective? You should write a book. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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keane: "human perception: it is often way off and is highly influenced by personal filters."
Please accept my nomination for ironic post of the year. 
"...what chance does a Native[in Canada] have?''
Well, what chance indeed. Here's a gem that appeared in a 2005 job ad for federal border guards(in other words, highly coveted federal civil service positions): ABORIGINAL APPLICANTS ONLY.
What happens to those few Natives who actually complete a university education(paid for by the hapless taxpayer)? I'll give you a hint: they aren't teaching English in E. Asia. They are virtually guaranteed a government job.
It's the kind of "oppression" whitey can only dream about.... |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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My native buddy took a course that is designed to help natives get jobs in the oil and gas industry. it was a 4 or 6 month course, can't remember. he got a job at Esso (Exxon to you yanks) with no university degree and no experience, starting pay over $40,000, 4 years ago.
I like what one poster said earlier about Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese coming to Canada and successfully assimilating, while still retaining their culture. The problem with Natives is, they're culture for the last 40-100 years has been drinking, more drinking, playing pool, getting high, starting a big fire, molesting their children, and playing bingo. Of course I'm generalizing, but that is really what you are dealing with.
3 generations of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome can't be good for the gene pool. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
My native buddy took a course that is designed to help natives get jobs in the oil and gas industry. it was a 4 or 6 month course, can't remember. he got a job at Esso (Exxon to you yanks) with no university degree and no experience, starting pay over $40,000, 4 years ago.
I like what one poster said earlier about Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese coming to Canada and successfully assimilating, while still retaining their culture. The problem with Natives is, they're culture for the last 40-100 years has been drinking, more drinking, playing pool, getting high, starting a big fire, molesting their children, and playing bingo. Of course I'm generalizing, but that is really what you are dealing with.
3 generations of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome can't be good for the gene pool. |
And who the hell put them on the reservations? Who cut teir numbers from tens of millions to a tiny fraction of that? Who deprived them of their ancestral ways of life and left them with, literally nothing but time on their hands?
Arrogance sucks.
Reading you people is like watching a bully knock a kid down and ask why the hell he's on the ground.
There is something to be said for getting over it already, certainly. But it is foolish to disregard the history that has shaped the wasted and twisted culture. Are you surprised people divorced from what they know and their means of survival, their ways of life are adrift and lost?
Sheer ignorance on this thread. Quit being apologists for your forebears. They were ruthless, arrogant, cruel and stupid in their handling of the indigenous peoples. (Don't get me wrong: most conquerers are.) To think the warped lives their great grandfathers, grandfathers and fathers have lived has no impact is just ridiculous.
You need look no further than the childish crap you see here on Dave's to see what happens to people adrift from their roots. |
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friendofIgnatius J.
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: getting back on point |
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talking about going adrift...
So should Canada adopt a symbolic resolution that contains statements that contravene our democratically mandated constitution? |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: Re: getting back on point |
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| friendofIgnatius J. wrote: |
talking about going adrift...
So should Canada adopt a symbolic resolution that contains statements that contravene our democratically mandated constitution? |
The practical realities are not the issue I am raising. What disturbs me is the dismissal of these people as craven and the utter lack of any sense of cause and effect. If one knows anything about alcoholism and abuse it is that they beget themselves. Knowing this and dismissing that the genesis of the spiral downward was the direct result of subjugation is BS. |
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Leavingkorea
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Leavingkorea wrote: |
I do a lot of work with First Nations and Metis and it drives me a bit nuts (although I can never show it). Basically the white man is still blamed for all the ills of the Native people and is not to be trusted. If I go to the communities to talk about an issue, I'm totally ignored and not trusted at all. I need a local native with me to get somewhere and generally it's better to just send them and to stay at the office.
It's really tough to handle. They have so much money thrown at them and have every advantage there is when it comes to education and employment yet they are a total disaster as a rule. It's very frustrating to deal with.
Oh the stories I could tell about the waste, manipulation of the system and the general B.S. of it all. |
have there been books written in the first-person narrative to share what is going on from an outsiders perspective? You should write a book. |
Writing an honest book would cost me my job. Plus I'm no writer. As for an outsider writing a book, I'm not sure if it has been done.
But EFL might enjoy this:
-Syncrude and Suncor both have a total workforce that is 9% native (which is proportional to their actual population)
-For mostly PR purposes Syncrude, over the past 14 years, has completed over $900 million in total business volume with Aboriginal companies.
-If you fill out a applications for big oil you'll find that it clearly states that Native people will be given first priority in all jobs and that some jobs are set aside for natives only.
-We pay large amounts of money for Natives to go to school. In fact the local College runs programs specifically for Natives to get their education up to high school standards. Non-Natives can't get into it. They have to take a different program for that. Native are allowed into either.
-Literacy programs, parenting skills programs, special apprenticeships programs...all run by big oil. Why don't they run those for non-Natives?
After all is said and done with the above 2 things are clear.
1. Despite every advantage imaginable Natives are struggling to even represent their population statistically speaking.
2. Having worked here, I know that 80% of them can't get close to pulling their weight and that they are lazy at best and a danger at worst.
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And who the hell put them on the reservations? |
The victors. Like it or not, it's human nature for the victors in a battle to make themselves better off. And if the reservations are the problem why not just get rid of them?
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| Who cut their numbers from tens of millions to a tiny fraction of that? |
Mother nature did. 80-90% of the original natives were wiped out by disease. They kept getting wiped out that way too for hundreds of years. Lets also not gloss over the fact that thousands of European settlers were brutally slaughtered by the Natives. And in the long run syphilis may have killed more people going the other way. Where is the whiteman's support from the Natives for that? 
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Who deprived them of their ancestral ways of life and left them with, literally nothing but time on their hands? |
What is it? Most barely even know. They complain it's all gone yet don't know what it was or really seem to want it back when it involves losing the comforts of modern life. Is it the great plains tradition of riding on horseback and hunting the Buffalo? Oh wait, horses were hunted to extinction 7000 years before Columbus and were introduced to America again in the 1600-1700's as horse got loose and repopulated the land.
Ignorance sucks.
Reading you is like watching a child put his hand in a fire over and over again and not knowing why it hurts. |
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