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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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 Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| Was something deleted? |
It does not appear so to me but I can wrong... |
The reason I asked is because a certain poster appeared to be responding to a pro-forced-abortion post, and I couldn't find one in the thread. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| Was something deleted? |
It does not appear so to me but I can wrong... |
The reason I asked is because a certain poster appeared to be responding to a pro-forced-abortion post, and I couldn't find one in the thread. |
Maybe someone edited their post?
Maybe something was deleted but I doubt it...
Last edited by Alyallen on Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
This is all somewhat irrelevant...at least to me...
If someone told me that I had to have a baby that I didn't want or that I had to abort a baby I did want, both actions are against my will. That is what saddens me about this story. That and the very late term abortion under such traumatizing circumstances....
But I'll leave the rest to bicker over murder versus killing and la di da.... |
It is a very sad story and I think it's appalling to everyone here. Back to what you said earlier, I can't go along with an "absolute relativist" view that wouldn't even allow readers to condemn the Chinese authorities' actions in this case. I don't see how anyone could react to this story any other way, honestly. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| Was something deleted? |
It does not appear so to me but I can wrong... |
The reason I asked is because a certain poster appeared to be responding to a pro-forced-abortion post, and I couldn't find one in the thread. |
Some people get ahead of themselves I suppose...
Maybe something was deleted but I doubt it... |
I doubt it too. This poster has a history of "getting ahead of himself," as you put it. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: Re: Abortion |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| I know the original topic was abortion, but the topic of murder by the state came up, in another post, & perhaps others would like to comment on capital punishment as well? Australia abolished the death penalty in 1965 so it's not an issue here. But many states in the USA still have it. My point was that innocent people can & do get executed in error by the State, so perhaps the death penalty should be abolished there, too? |
I don't support the death penalty, but it seems like a topic for another thread. I know I don't have time to jump into every debate on the Internet, and I'm sure there are other people who feel the same. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
This is all somewhat irrelevant...at least to me...
If someone told me that I had to have a baby that I didn't want or that I had to abort a baby I did want, both actions are against my will. That is what saddens me about this story. That and the very late term abortion under such traumatizing circumstances....
But I'll leave the rest to bicker over murder versus killing and la di da.... |
It is a very sad story and I think it's appalling to everyone here. Back to what you said earlier, I can't go along with an "absolute relativist" view that wouldn't even allow readers to condemn the Chinese authorities' actions in this case. I don't see how anyone could react to this story any other way, honestly. |
*shrugs* They have made their policies crystal clear for years. The circumstances surrounding this event were horrid but the upshot is that people are willing to come out and condemn this from the inside and fight it in the courts.
If you want to condemn it, I'm not stopping you. But I'm not going to make the mistake of thinking that what I think somehow matters in the scheme of things. These are Chinese people in China fighting against this and all I can do is agree with their actions based on their interpretation of the law. It sounds cold blooded but communists are not necessarily the type to get all warm and cuddly inside; so getting all weepy eyed about it distracts from the fact that the law may very well be on the side of that unfortunate couple....in my opinion. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| Do I think abortion is wrong? No, but it can't be right when it's forced on someone...That's what's so strange about this story. So yes, "murder" if that's what you want to call an abortion, sometimes is not always wrong but in this instance I can't say that it was right either.... |
This woman's got her head on straight. The real world : sometimes we have to do a bad thing to prevent a worse thing. As horrifying as it sounds, sometimes the worse thing is a new child.
But it's a choice for an individual, a woman, and anyone she chooses to consult, because she needs to be able to control her body - govts can take away life, for cause of crime or warfare, after birth, but they do not need to have the right to rip it from a woman's flesh without her consent. THAT'S the monstrous thing that is coming out of China.
If govt cannot do the job that was intended, to help people and promote the general welfare of society, then we are all better off to go back to the trees. I read somewhere orangutangs only have to work about 4 hours a day to find the fruit they need to eat make some shelter ffrom the rain at night. Some might wonder if civilization is really progress, considering that ... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
But it's a choice for an individual, a woman, and anyone she chooses to consult, because she needs to be able to control her body - govts can take away life, for cause of crime or warfare, after birth, but they do not need to have the right to rip it from a woman's flesh without her consent. THAT'S the monstrous thing that is coming out of China... |
Yeah, I agree 100%.
Forcing people to have abortions is truly, truly wrong. Why would anyone support it in any way? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Forcing people to have abortions is truly, truly wrong. Why would anyone support it in any way? |
No sane or caring person would. Fortunately, modern science has taught us how to give pleasure to each other without making a child without intenton. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Forcing people to have abortions is truly, truly wrong. Why would anyone support it in any way? |
No sane or caring person would. Fortunately, modern science has taught us how to give pleasure to each other without making a child without intenton. |
Yes! Modern science's greatest wonders have yet to be acheived, provided we don't abort or prevent the conception of all the next generation's brightest scientists.
And in those cases where condoms fail, being 99% effective, we are also happy enough to live in free and democratic societies where madmen are not permitted to push their utopian ideals upon us. Nobody in America can force a woman to abort her child for the sake of any misguided societal goal. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| So, wheres that loud mouth McGarrette? One thing you wont see that hypocrite do is criticize China. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:59 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Kuros"]
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Yes! Modern science's greatest wonders have yet to be acheived, provided we don't abort or prevent the conception of all the next generation's brightest scientists. |
You provided a link to a thread where I suggested the world might be a better place if people stopped having children for 5 or 10 years - of their own volition - or conversely, to reduce the world's human population by encouraging a policy of one child to a couple. I still sort of think that's a good idea, but not as something coerced by govt or anyone else. People ought to just get behind the idea, and not make more babies for a while. The one thing the world is not lacking in at the moment is people.
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| Nobody in America can force a woman to abort her child for the sake of any misguided societal goal. |
I never suggested anything of the sort of goal you describe. You misdunderstood me. Forcing abortion on a woman is exactly as cruel as prohibiting her from having one if she chooses.
Maybe you are right, and maybe the world can handle the strain of another 10 billion homo sapiens walking on it and driving cars over it - if I'm wrong, the problem is easily solved, though, because human beings can be made relatively quickly by unskilled laborers who enjoy their work ... |
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