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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: Muslims more American than Evangelicals |
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From May of this year, but this is the first time I've seen the full report (you'll have to click on the PDF link).
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/483/muslim-americans
The identity question is often cited as an example of Muslims not assimilating. Meanwhile, evangelical Christians have a pretty atrocious rate of "assimilation" themselves.
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| most white evangelical Protestants (62%) say they primarily identify themselves as Christians rather than Americans |
Overall, the differences are rather slight:
| p. 31 wrote: |
| Asked whether they think of themselves first as an American or first as a Muslim, a 47% plurality of U.S. Muslims say they consider themselves Muslims first; 28% say they think of themselves first as Americans. In May 2006, when U.S. Christians were asked a parallel question, 42% said they think of themselves as Christians first, while 48% said they are Americans first. |
Other interesting tidbits:
Muslims believe more in the American dream than Americans do
| p. 1 wrote: |
| 71% of Muslim Americans agree that most people who want to get ahead in the U.S. can make it if they are willing to work hard. |
64% of all Americans believe the same thing.
Muslims don't support terror
| p. 5 wrote: |
| Very few Muslim Americans � just 1% � say that suicide bombings against civilian targets are often justified to defend Islam; an additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified in these circumstances. |
Meanwhile, 8% of all Americans believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
Any more straw men to address? |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: |
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American Muslims are not and have never been the problem. Every Muslim person that I know is a contributor to American society. There have been multiple times more bombings and murders committed by Americans in the name of Christianity than Americans in the name of Islam. In fact, I don't think that I've ever read anyone on here say that American Muslims were a problem.
I guess the implication in the OP is a strawman in itself.  |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
In fact, I don't think that I've ever read anyone on here say that American Muslims were a problem.
I guess the implication in the OP is a strawman in itself. |
They say Islam is a fundamental problem. If Islam in the US isn't a problem, then their analysis (aka knee jerk) is wrong. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
In fact, I don't think that I've ever read anyone on here say that American Muslims were a problem.
I guess the implication in the OP is a strawman in itself. |
They say Islam is a fundamental problem. If Islam in the US isn't a problem, then their analysis (aka knee jerk) is wrong. |
Yes, I'll agree that many people, including myself, say that Islam is a problem. However, using American Muslims as a sample is disingenuous. Muslims that come to the United States or Canada generally believe in the way of life those places offer. In Canada, they don't have to assimilate. However, in the U.S., they usually do.
American Islam isn't the problem. Radical, fundamentalist Islam is the problem. Usually, people like myself just use the word Islam instead of writing radical, fundamentalist Islam, but the implication should be understood. When people complain about Islam, they aren't complaining about the guys running the convenience store or the butcher down the street.
And, in all fairness, they also say that radical, fundamentalist Christianity is a problem. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| However, using American Muslims as a sample is disingenuous. |
More so than using a few examples of radical Islam to indict all Muslims?
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| Radical, fundamentalist Islam is the problem. Usually, people like myself just use the word Islam instead of writing radical, fundamentalist Islam, but the implication should be understood. |
If that's the case, which I don't believe it is in many cases, it should be more explicit.
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| When people complain about Islam, they aren't complaining about the guys running the convenience store or the butcher down the street. |
Speak for yourself. There are many who speak of eliminating all Muslim immigration and deporting all Muslim immigrants.
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| And, in all fairness, they also say that radical, fundamentalist Christianity is a problem. |
When pressed. But it's not their raison d'etre. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Speak for yourself. |
I usually do.
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| There are many who speak of eliminating all Muslim immigration and deporting all Muslim immigrants. |
Those people are religionist, racist bigots. I don't do that.
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| When pressed. But it's not their raison d'etre. |
Pressed, no. Asked, yes. But, that also might have to do with the fact that the majority of discourse that takes place on this forum has to do with Iraq, terrorism, or something else that has to do with radical Islam. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Speak for yourself. |
I usually do. |
So you retract your claims about "people like myself"?
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| There are many who speak of eliminating all Muslim immigration and deporting all Muslim immigrants. |
Those people are religionist, racist bigots. I don't do that. |
But I think we both know people like that. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Speak for yourself. |
I usually do. |
So you retract your claims about "people like myself"? |
That's why I threw in the usually disclaimer.  |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
In fact, I don't think that I've ever read anyone on here say that American Muslims were a problem.
I guess the implication in the OP is a strawman in itself. |
They say Islam is a fundamental problem. If Islam in the US isn't a problem, then their analysis (aka knee jerk) is wrong. |
Yes, I'll agree that many people, including myself, say that Islam is a problem. However, using American Muslims as a sample is disingenuous. Muslims that come to the United States or Canada generally believe in the way of life those places offer. In Canada, they don't have to assimilate. However, in the U.S., they usually do.
American Islam isn't the problem. Radical, fundamentalist Islam is the problem. Usually, people like myself just use the word Islam instead of writing radical, fundamentalist Islam, but the implication should be understood. When people complain about Islam, they aren't complaining about the guys running the convenience store or the butcher down the street.
And, in all fairness, they also say that radical, fundamentalist Christianity is a problem. |
Huff, brings up a good point that I brought up early. People act like most Muslims are a menace. I remember reading Yvonne Haddad, an Arab Christian, writing that 50% of Muslim born women in America marrying non-Muslim born men and half of those men convert and half of them don't. Muslim Americans and Canadians somehow seem more liberal than their counterparts in England, and the ones in France are more liberal than their counterparts in England. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
American Muslims are not and have never been the problem. Every Muslim person that I know is a contributor to American society. There have been multiple times more bombings and murders committed by Americans in the name of Christianity than Americans in the name of Islam. In fact, I don't think that I've ever read anyone on here say that American Muslims were a problem.
I guess the implication in the OP is a strawman in itself. |
I guess you missed BJWD's posts. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Muslims more American than Evangelicals |
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| I believe some of you must have missed this the first time it was posted. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Usually, people like myself just use the word Islam instead of writing radical, fundamentalist Islam, but the implication should be understood. |
I don't agree. I think when posting, a person needs to be as explicit as possible. It should not be up to the reader to keep track of which person means 'A' and which person means 'B' etc when they use the same word when talking about an issue. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what Huff's point is. I didn't read any previous thread on this and I don't spend much time in any of these sorts of threads, so maybe I'm missing the context. But it seems that the OP is addressing certain European posters and their views on Muslim integration and immigration by quoting stats in the US.
Last edited by flakfizer on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey, don't let the European infitada in any way challenge the opinions of a true believer. Absolutely nothing can penetrate the wall of dogma separating reality and opinion. |
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