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hossenfeffer
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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 Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: Public school advantages and disadvantages |
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My contract is almost up at the academy I'm working at and I'm thinking of jumping ship. What are the advantages of working at a public school? What are the disadvantages?
Thanks,
Hoss |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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In my experience Public school:
PROS:
(1) Absolutely no, hassle over salary.
(2) Teaching less hours (anywhere between 15 - 22 max a week).
(3) Heaps of cancelled classes (nearly every week)
(4) No 'parent' pressure.
(5) Good co-teachers (English level and co-operation)
(6) Optional afterschool classes (paid overtime)
(7) Treated with respect by kids and other teachers.
( Paid a little extra for qualifications/certificates.
CONS:
(1) Compulsory deductions (super, health, tax)
(2) Long, long days (8 hour days - even if you're not teaching)
(3) Various degrees of classroom autonomy (you design lesson plan or sometimes have lessons designed by K teachers with little clue).
(4) Your classes / lessons can be hi-jacked by K teachers for their own agendas (promotion points, test results etc).
(5) No lateral thinking from admin and DOE (we can't do this as no one's ever done this before etc)
AND THE BIGGIES
(6) Public school vacation camps (13-14 hour days, locked in with kids at night - 24 hour supervision of kids - crap food - only 1 day off in 19 days etc, treated like a servant etc ).
(7) Bad co-teachers (your worst nightmare).
Hagwons:
(1) 28-30 hours a week;
(2) Constant lying/cheating
(3) Parental pressure
(4) Cheating on pension/tax payments
(5) Constant nickle/diming of staff
(6) Treated as a servant/slave
(7) 5 & 11 month firings
Conclusion:
I wasted 2 years in a hagwon. I'm in public school now and it far, far, better than my (or any of my friend's) hagwon jobs. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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I have never seen a public school camp like that. My camps were always over by 12:00??? Also, I don't quite get the mandatory deductions being a con. The pension is good for many people (doubling what you put in), and you don't have to worry about the tax man coming knocking.
Public schools are much better though on the most part. |
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hossenfeffer
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:33 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice. I'm strongly leaning in the direction of accepting a public school position. If you can think of anything else...please let me know!
Hoss |
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KimchiExplosion
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: Nowhere near Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| I have never seen a public school camp like that. My camps were always over by 12:00??? |
Same here |
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vox
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: Jeollabukdo
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| hossenfeffer wrote: |
Thanks for the advice. I'm strongly leaning in the direction of accepting a public school position. If you can think of anything else...please let me know!
Hoss |
Yeah I'd like to add something.
In the outer provinces (mine's Jeollanamdo, I'll never go back to Seoul, and very very happy in general) you have to really know whether or not you can brush up your Korean enough to stick it out with the natives in one of those isolated jobs (e.g. like a country school, or being ferried everyday to various islands to teach an hour at multiple schools)
or
whether you can't really hack it as a country school-posted teacher and prefer the safety in numbers. Age and personality type will best guide you at that. But my experience in my little city in this province, assigned through Canadian Connections (best f**king recruiter of the 3 I've had experience with) is that the foreigner communities are really good at sticking together. To me that's a lot of what I thought Korea should have been like when I first got here and taught at a little hogwan in Ilsan.
Why does that matter? Because I've found when one has got a life outside of school, one can save more. Also when the s**t goes down, demographics (knowing what your fellow teachers in the same program are doing) helps in the negotiations room as it did for me just last week when I had an issue about extra classes. That old line, 'nobody's done that before', it helps with us too. In my program, we don't really get trolls either when we email for help. We just get help. Try getting that from your Seoul apartment on Dave's.
Bottom line, decide if rural life small town life or small city life is for you. And if you're going with my recruiter, you'll doubtless be invited to at least one email list and if you're at all healthy and socially balanced, you'll find the stay much more pleasant because of it.
Teaching English in Korea isn't all about living in Seoul anymore, at least not for me. There's a better life to be had and a lot of people having it. Consider one of the non-SMOE, non-Gyeonggi-do programs. A lot of these places are sweetening the pot to compete with the great Rome that is Seoul. And you can take advantage of that. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Oldfart covered most of the pro/cons
Here's my thoughts:
I worked at a public school for a year and loved it. One of the draw backs is the school was pretty strict that I had to stay until 4:40pm in the afternoon (even when the Korean teachers had their "outing" day).
The camps weren't that big of a deal. During the summer I had 4 days of camp at my school and 2 days at another school (we had native speaking teachers from other schools visit during our camps which allowed more kids to participate).
In addition, there was a "area camp" that was 4 days (plus one half day for prep) and we got paid an additional 300,000 won for that. The last day was at the English Village in Paju which was a full day, but most of the time we were able to just hangout on our own and a bunch of us even spent a couple hours in a bar while the kids ran around. Since it was a hot day and there was a fountain I got a lot of the kids soaking wet with the water bottle I was carrying around.
For the Winter camp, I had 3 days of camp with the kids. Then I also taught a class for teachers which I got paid extra for.
Another thing is there is quite a bit more "red tape" when you want to get something done and it often has to be approved by 2 or 3 people. In my school I had to get the head English teacher, vice-principal and principal's signatures. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The other thing in terms of co-teachers is that it's really a crap shoot in terms of what kind of co-teachers you get. In my school I loved my co-teachers (although I had one teacher for the first 2 months have was "fridgid" at best in terms of personality and she went on maternity leave). I've heard of some really bad co-teachers and really good ones. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
In my experience Public school:
PROS:
(1) Absolutely no, hassle over salary.
(2) Teaching less hours (anywhere between 15 - 22 max a week).
(3) Heaps of cancelled classes (nearly every week)
(4) No 'parent' pressure.
(5) Good co-teachers (English level and co-operation)
(6) Optional afterschool classes (paid overtime)
(7) Treated with respect by kids and other teachers.
( Paid a little extra for qualifications/certificates.
CONS:
(1) Compulsory deductions (super, health, tax)
(2) Long, long days (8 hour days - even if you're not teaching)
(3) Various degrees of classroom autonomy (you design lesson plan or sometimes have lessons designed by K teachers with little clue).
(4) Your classes / lessons can be hi-jacked by K teachers for their own agendas (promotion points, test results etc).
(5) No lateral thinking from admin and DOE (we can't do this as no one's ever done this before etc)
AND THE BIGGIES
(6) Public school vacation camps (13-14 hour days, locked in with kids at night - 24 hour supervision of kids - crap food - only 1 day off in 19 days etc, treated like a servant etc ).
(7) Bad co-teachers (your worst nightmare).
Hagwons:
(1) 28-30 hours a week;
(2) Constant lying/cheating
(3) Parental pressure
(4) Cheating on pension/tax payments
(5) Constant nickle/diming of staff
(6) Treated as a servant/slave
(7) 5 & 11 month firings
Conclusion:
I wasted 2 years in a hagwon. I'm in public school now and it far, far, better than my (or any of my friend's) hagwon jobs. |
I forgot another major con for public school jobs. That is, you will have kids of EVERY level in your classes. They range from well spoken hagwon kids - to normal kids - to intellectually handicapped 'special' kids - to downright thick-as-a-brick kids.
The thick ones can be trying - and it's hard not to fall into the trap of only teaching to the 'top' kids or the 'thick kids at the 'bottom'. But, all in all, public school rocks compared to the hagwon experience.
And for those who haven't heard of public school camps like that - I hope you never do. One of the teachers on a recent summer camp completely flipped under the pressure. |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
I forgot another major con for public school jobs. That is, you will have kids of EVERY level in your classes. They range from well spoken hagwon kids - to normal kids - to intellectually handicapped 'special' kids - to downright thick-as-a-brick kids. |
How handicapped do they get? Having attended "integrated" schools, I know there can be a huuuge range. There's a point at which you just could not pay me enough to deal with that.
(Yes, I suck.) |
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mnhnhyouh
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Location: The Middle Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the kids I teach in a hagwon are telling me that nearly all the kids in their classes go to hagwons for English. I teach in a very expensive hagwon, average class size is 4, so the kids progress very quickly.
I have a class of kids in grade 2 and 3 in elementary school. They are reading Harry Potter in English for our hagwon. I want the grade three kids to be reading it during their English classes in school.
I tell them to imagine they get caught, and have to show the teacher what they are reading. Some of the kids in this class claim to have better English than their Korean teachers in school. Given the ease with which they converse, I would not be surprised.
Of course the grade 2 kid cant do this, as he doesnt start English in elementary school until next year.
h |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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I teach in an inner city school in Seoul. Great kids, polite and kind, but bugger all English spoken (or written). The special (handicapped) kids just sit in class - they don't do anything - except "thinking". They are no problem in my school.
There are about 2-4 hagwon kids in each class. But in some classes they hide their English ability (so as not to embarrass their friends- I think). Mostly - it's just basic teaching out of the middle school textbooks (they suck - but the kids need to know them for their tests).
Oh, and in all the classes (generally around 37 kids) there are always some who do absolutely nothing. They don't speak unless you co-erse them - and never complete their handouts unless you stand over them. I don't worry too much about these kids - they're not ready for English yet. (Some of them may never be ready for Englishi.e., low ability and/or motivation)
So hagwons have low student numbers and the kids are bright (over all). In contrast, public school classes are huge, demanding, tiring, and have a very wide range of student ability. BUT NO-ONE IS CHEATING YOU ON YOUR SALARY/HOLS. And you're not teaching many hours a day. It is 100% better than my hagwon experience. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
In
AND THE BIGGIES
(6) Public school vacation camps (13-14 hour days, locked in with kids at night - 24 hour supervision of kids - crap food - only 1 day off in 19 days etc, treated like a servant etc ).
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While I agree with everything else, this is not true of all public schools. For example all of my camps (both summer and winter) were held at the school and took place between the hours of 9-5 (much the same as a usual day).
The same was true for all the public school teachers that I know in my town. |
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hossenfeffer
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the responses. My hogwan experience hasn't been horrible but I'm working Mon-Sat teaching all speaking and writing classes and I feel like I'm getting burned out. If I don't get a University job somewhere here I think I'll try to find public school work.
From what everyone has said...I think the overwhelming majority agree that public school teaching is far better than the hogwan grind.
Thanks for all your comments!
Hoss |
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poita
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mnhnhyouh wrote: |
I have a class of kids in grade 2 and 3 in elementary school. They are reading Harry Potter in English for our hagwon. I want the grade three kids to be reading it during their English classes in school.
I tell them to imagine they get caught, and have to show the teacher what they are reading. Some of the kids in this class claim to have better English than their Korean teachers in school. Given the ease with which they converse, I would not be surprised.
h |
I know this is a bit late, but for your student's sake, I hope that you are just trolling. If not, i hope you seriously think about the message that you are sending to these kids.
As a middle school teacher who is constantly finding kids doing other work during class (39 kids per class, 20 different proficiency levels per class, impossible to keep track/engage of all of them), attitudes like yours are not at all helpful.
Yes, the English curriculum is a joke, but the content still needs to be learned in order for these kids to proceed through the current system (one in which a few percentage points, or even the teacher's impression of a student, can make a very big difference to the outcome of a student's life).
You are in effect telling very young and impressionable minds that the content of school lessons are not as important as the content of hagwon lessons. This is a very dangerous thing to say in an environment where the rich (who can afford to go to hagwons) are already at a huge advantage.
As for the second point (students having 'better English' than their teachers) you are looking at it in a VERY simplistic way. Better by what standard? Conversational fluency? Breadth of vocabulary? Grammar knowledge? Debating skills? |
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