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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| keane wrote: |
| It has only gotten worse since then with the new presidential and homeland security orders giving the president control of all three branches of government. |
The legislative branch still remains the first branch of government. The president, or any member of his cabinet, can make any declaration or sign anything they wish. That doesn't make it binding. Any attempt by the executive branch to circumvent the courts is doomed to fail. |
In theory. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| keane wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| I find it funny that the pro americans stay away from certain threads like this. Maybe it's a little bit too truthful for them and they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. |
Yup. If we did like they do and PM one another to gather the Faction and filibuster their every thread, they'd all go postal. |
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| manure keane Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:37 pm |
Unlike you who just emails me toilet talk. Oh , EFL... |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Martial Law in a Nutshell--15 Questions |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Martial Law in a Nutshell--15 Questions
Mary Maxwell, Ph.D | November 10 2005
1. Q: Is it likely that martial law is imminent in the U.S.?
A: Yes. The way has been partially cleared for it legally by the Homeland Security Act, that 'grandfathered in' the whole of a secret 1979 executive order dealing with emergency rule. One legal hurdle to martial law still remains, namely, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which explicitly forbids soldiers to participate in domestic law enforcement. However, Congress could easily annul the Posse Comitatus Act, and is being pressured by the attorney general and the Pentagon to do just that.
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Meh. They already militarized the police force years back. That's what SWAT is all about, along with the military rank structure of the modern police force. Also, they've already called up the National Guard a few times (Kent State anyone??). The National Guard is a grouping of all the initial state militias.
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
2. Q: What is martial law?
A: In popular usage, martial law means that some or all civil liberties are suspended. For example, there could be a curfew, which would prevent people from exercising their normal liberty to walk around after 9 p.m. Legally, martial 'law' means that military commanders are assigned to carry out law and order among civilians. Hence, soldiers can determine what the rules are, can arrest civilians for breaking them, and can subject them to summary justice. A person could not turn to the courts for help.
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They'll already stop people who are walking late night that look suspicious. I just don't see this happening anytime soon. It reeks of paranoia. Too many people like to go out and drink and socialize. Have you been to the US lately? Where in the US?
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
3. Q: Have any democratic countries experienced martial law?
A: Yes, many. For example, Prime Minister Trudeau of Canada declared martial law over Montreal in 1970 in response to kidnappings by Quebec separatists. In the Philippines, martial law under President Marcos lasted from 1972 to 1981. Greece endured 'the rule of the Colonels' from 1967 to 1974.
4. Q: At the moment, while the Posse Comitatus Act is still in effect, does it offer good protection?
A: No. Posse Comitatus was substantially weakened by amendments in 1981 and 1991 that gave the Defense Department a role in the enforcement of drug laws. Since then, many American cities have acquired joint task forces composed of military and local police (who can be temporarily deputized as federal officers). A drug dealer, or an innocent person, may have his door broken down--legally--and his home entered by soldiers and police with guns drawn.
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Breaking into a dealers house with guns drawn requires a warrant. Without probable cause/reasonable doubt, they wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on. This stuff doesn't happen much without good reason.
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
5. Q: What does the Constitution of the U.S. say about martial law?
A: The term 'martial law' never appears in the Constitution. However, the idea of it is conveyed in two sections of Article I as follows: Section 8 says The Congress shall have the Power . . . (15) To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions. Section 9 (2) says The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety will require it.
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Yes, it can happen. The chances of it are a bit slim right now.
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
6. Q: Does the Constitution tell us which branch of government has the right to declare martial law?
A: Yes, the legislative branch has the right. Currently, there are 'White House radicals,' particularly in the Office of Legal Counsel to the President, advocating the position that the Constitution can be interpreted to support almost unlimited executive power. However, even they must acknowledge that the above-quoted sections (Sections 8 and 9) appear in Article I of the Constitution, which is the article that allocates specific powers to the legislature! Indisputably, this means that Congress can suspend our right to habeas corpus. One looks in vain for any similar authority for the president. Article II, which lays out the prerogatives of the executive branch, is silent on these matters.
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Yes they have gotten away with some "protective measures." In some ways it sucks. In other ways it makes sense. However,
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
one of the first things it must do is remove oppositional leaders and popular figures--be they poets, physicians, priests, or judges.
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The day I see Bob Dylan, Noam Chomsky, Billy Graham (or his son, I suppose), and Judge Judy "locked up" or "removed" or "suddenly disappearing" will be....will be....a figment of your imagination??
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
12. Q: Is it conceivable that mercenaries would be used domestically?
A: It is more than conceivable; it has already happened. Following Hurricane Katrina, the Blackwater USA (and perhaps other mercenary units) were assigned to duty in Louisiana by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).
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Yes, Blackwater is messed up and the Bush party has overstepped their bounds. The American public doesn't accept that very well. An attempt to instate martial law would send them out of Washington real quickly.
I WILL say that it depends on your interpretation of martial law being "imminent". Imminent in the next 50 years? Maybe, particularly over immigration I would imagine. 20 years? If the public becomes more easily duped and easy to control (i.e. the current generation 25 and under). 10 years? Doubt it. Maybe with another few extreme domestic terrorist attacks.
5 years? No way. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Martial Law in a Nutshell--15 Questions |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| 10 years? Doubt it. Maybe with another few extreme domestic terrorist attacks. |
Exactly.
Oklahoma City, the FIRST attempted destruction of the WTC, 9/11 ... 
Familiar with der Fuhrer's Empowement Act?
Using the FALSE FLAG Reighstag event.
Oh, those BIG LIES.
Black Dialectics ... all the way to the bank ... baby  |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Now it's starting to sound a little more like wishful thinking! |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| Now it's starting to sound a little more like wishful thinking! |
Speaking of wishlists, were you aware that a catalyzing Pearl Harbor like event was on PNAC's?
Ever heard of PNAC?
Metta. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Of course I know the PNAC! We used to send them demolition documents and computer airplane crash simulations that we designed in my university engineering class. Our professor had a contract with them. Something like a "Disaster Conception and Dynamics Model." I can't remember exactly...I'd ask him, but he ended up going back to Saudi Arabia at the end of the semester. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| keane wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| I find it funny that the pro americans stay away from certain threads like this. Maybe it's a little bit too truthful for them and they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. |
Yup. If we did like they do and PM one another to gather the Faction and filibuster their every thread, they'd all go postal. |
| Quote: |
| manure keane Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:37 pm |
Unlike you who just emails me toilet talk. Oh , keane... |
This is the last you will ever get from me, mindlessmetoo, so enjoy it: Your own mother would bitch -slap you for the way you act on these boards, both out of embarrassment and for the sheer childishness and pettiness you present. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Martial Law in a Nutshell--15 Questions |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| the Bush party has overstepped their bounds. The American public doesn't accept that very well. An attempt to instate martial law would send them out of Washington real quickly. |
People keep saying this, but where is the evidence of it? Where are the mass demonstrations in every state and city? Where is the outrage and recalling of public officials? Where is the civil disobedience to put a stop to all the lies and criminal activity? These things are all happening on very small scales only.
No, all we have seen from America so far is a rather wimpy, "Hey, why don't you stop that indiscriminant killing, raping of the legal framework of the nation and jailing of innocent people? Please?"
Rome got soft. The US got soft, too, but much faster.
Oh, and people are being arrested, charged and tried under BS claims made possible by the PA. Ask the artist arrested for having safe bacteria samples that he uses for a pointed performance piece or the co-ed arrested for decorating her shirt with circuitry. Etc. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Martial Law in a Nutshell--15 Questions |
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| keane wrote: |
People keep saying this, but where is the evidence of it? Where are the mass demonstrations in every state and city? Where is the outrage and recalling of public officials? Where is the civil disobedience to put a stop to all the lies and criminal activity? These things are all happening on very small scales only.
No, all we have seen from America so far is a rather wimpy, "Hey, why don't you stop that indiscriminant killing, raping of the legal framework of the nation and jailing of innocent people? Please?"
Rome got soft. The US got soft, too, but much faster.
Oh, and people are being arrested, charged and tried under BS claims made possible by the PA. Ask the artist arrested for having safe bacteria samples that he uses for a pointed performance piece or the co-ed arrested for decorating her shirt with circuitry. Etc. |
Because it's not really affecting people on a day-to-day basis. It's not like Vietnam where the war was on TV and kids were being plucked from university to go to war.
The fact is that people aren't being pulled from their homes and being forced to do this or that. The people getting in trouble and locked up are random and unfamiliar, and the circumstances are awkward. It's not family members or friends, it's some artist from that other part of the country.
In fact, I'd say that going between the US and elsewhere, it seems that the only things that really irk people in the US right now are:
1. Higher gas prices
2. The risk of tainted Chinese products
3. The presence of illegal immigrants
Outside of that, I don't see anything much different in the US as far as lifestyle goes than in 1997. More openly gay people I suppose...Hmm...not much else.
All this stuff will really have to affect everyone's personal life before they go up in arms. As long as McDonald's and Burger King still have 99-cent
menus, what is there to worry about?
Yes, I DO acknowledge that that is the problem. The gluttony and rampant consumerism of Woori America is ridiculous. It leads to a lot of the ignorance that allows people in government to get away with crime, and instigates a lot of the current resentment of other countries.
Like I said before, I don't see that being a problem in the near future, but further on down the line...yes...it may become a serious concern when reality sets in. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| Of course I know the PNAC! We used to send them demolition documents and computer airplane crash simulations that we designed in my university engineering class. Our professor had a contract with them. Something like a "Disaster Conception and Dynamics Model." I can't remember exactly...I'd ask him, but he ended up going back to Saudi Arabia at the end of the semester. |
Wow, sounds like fun  |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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US Govt "Collects Data" On Americans Overseas:
Washington Post
Sat Sep 22, 2:25 AM ET
WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US government is compiling electronic files on the travel habits of millions of Americans who take trips overseas, The Washington Post reported Saturday.
Citing documents obtained by a civil liberties group and statements by unnamed government officials, the newspaper said the retained data included travel companions, persons with whom Americans plan to stay abroad, the personal items they carry during their journeys, and even the books that travelers have carried.
The personal travel records are intended to be stored for as long as 15 years as part of the Department of Homeland Security's effort to "assess the security threat" posed by all travelers entering the country, the report said.
Officials say the records, which are analyzed by the department's Automated "Targeting" System, help border officials distinguish "potential" "terrorists" from "innocent" people entering the country, The Post said.
But new details about the information being retained suggest that the government is monitoring the personal habits of travelers more closely than it has previously acknowledged, the report said.
The Automated Targeting System has been used to screen passengers since the mid-1990s, but the collection of data for it has been greatly expanded and automated since 2002, according to the paper.
Officials defended the retention of highly personal data on travelers not involved in or linked to any violations of the law, the report said.
But civil liberties advocates have alleged that the type of information preserved by the department raises alarms about the government's ability to intrude into the lives of ordinary people, The Post pointed out.
The millions of travelers whose records are kept by the government are generally unaware of what their records say, and the government has not created an effective mechanism for reviewing the data and correcting any errors, activists said, the paper said.
The activists alleged that the data collection effort, as carried out now, violates the Privacy Act, which bars the gathering of data related to Americans' exercise of their First Amendment rights, such as their choice of reading material or persons with whom to associate, according to the report. |
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