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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| faster wrote: |
| Parents can let their kids run around freely as much as they want, just not around me. |
Right. Everyone knows that kids NEED to be allowed to run loose & no-rules, and to act like the out-of-control hellions they are. To scream, run, jump up and down, throw rocks at windows, eat grass, slug each other in the stomach for no reason, torment small animals, and pee their pants. Especially little boys, it's a vital part of the manning-up process. But there's a time and place for everything. Itchy & Scratcyland, yes; fine dining establishments where the elite meet to eat, Hell's bells, NO!
But even so, I'm basically in agreement with Jinju on this, at least as he's defined the terms: "babies & toddlers". The worst thing a baby can do is cry or poo their nappies, which no parent wants to have happen in a restaurant anyway, and in almost every case will tend to matters quicksmart so as to minimise the discomfort of other diners. Right? So that leaves toddlers, who by definition are so young they're just practising this wacky new sport called walking. I'm less personally disturbed by toddlers roaming around restaurants than I am worried that, with them so small and underfoot, they're begging to get mowed down by foot traffic or scalded on the head & face by a tipped-over boiling tray of God-knows-what.
It's the kids OVER the age of baby/toddler that give me the most grief. And if I'm worse than Scrooge for wanting them kept under close parental supervision in restaurants, well, then, worse than Scrooge I be.
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| I'm not above bringing a kid back to his (it's usually boys, I've noticed) table when he's disrupting my meal; I've done it before and I would do it again. |
Usually the boys, but just a couple nights ago we had a big bash with friends and one couple had a little daughter of... 5? 6? 7? Crap, I'm bad at guessing kids' ages. Anyway, her big shtick was pestering me (out of 10 grown-ups) the whole night, poking my back, interrupting the conversation, and ... get this... drawing pictures of me on napkins!  It was very, very sweet and adorable, of course, but tested my patience enormously. Particularly the constantly-being-interrupted business, wow. And I was her only victim the whole night. On the plus-side, I now have in my wallet portraits of: me in a boat, me in ... it's not a house I'm told, it's a tree, me running with a dog... or maybe that's a squirrel...
| Qinella wrote: |
| When I was young, never once did I think about how great it was having a bunch of arbitrary rules. In fact, I hated rules, and spent much time seething as a child. |
To kids, every rule seems arbitrary. And children need (and actually want) to seethe. It builds character and a colourful vocabulary for use later in life. Otherwise, all we'd be writing now is "Teacher, candy! Teacher, candy!"
Last edited by JongnoGuru on Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Has it ever occurred to you guys that children might sometimes think that adults should be seen and not heard? |
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Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: at my wit's end
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Your kids' freedom to run around and play ends where my freedom to be left alone begins. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes. It's also occurred to me that my dogs might sometimes want to toss their hats in the ring for president of Korea. So what of it? |
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Are they the lemmings
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Location: Not here anymore. JongnoGuru was the only thing that kept me here.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
But there's a time and place for everything. Itchy & Scratcyland, yes; fine dining establishments where the elite meet to eat, Hell's bells, NO!
[...]
It's the kids OVER the age of baby/toddler that give me the most grief. And if I'm worse than Scrooge for wanting them kept under close parental supervision in restaurants, well, then, worse than Scrooge I be. |
(2nd image edited due to page formatting distortion-mod team) |
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in_seoul_2003
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| No idea, but it's not even in the top ten. |
So, not being in the top-ten is good? If it were 11 or 12 would that be good out of, what?, 200+ nations?
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| Japan on the other hand ranks 8th. |
Who said anything about Japan? Why not mention Moldovia while you're at it, or the number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 on that Wiki list?
"As of 2005, South Korea's average suicide rate hit a record high of 26.1, the highest among all the OECD member countries...[beating out even Japan]"
---Korea Times
And yes, I know tthat OECD does not include every country. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Kids have a right to behave as they very well please, within the limits of not disrupting other peoples' comfort zones. |
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Don Gately
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
| Has it ever occurred to you guys that children might sometimes think that adults should be seen and not heard? |
Yes, but I'm bigger than them, so who cares what they think?
Children should be left to do what they please? Jesus, have you people never read Lord of the Flies?
And Hierophant is right; kids are going to push until they find the line because they want to know where the line is. If there is no line, then that's just chaos and nothing is scarier, especially for little people who are insecure and unsure anyway, than a state of chaos.
They want the rules. They just don't know what they are yet. That's where adults come in.
When I break down and have kids it will basically be my concession that I'm on hiatus from restaurants, airplanes, movie theaters, etc. for about 12 years, except for the off nights when I can find a babysitter. If your kids are disrupting the experience someone else is paying for, it's not a suitable situation for them to be in. Period. Grandparents should come to see them, not vice-versa. I gues you can come up with a bunch of outlandish exceptions to that rule, but for the most part I think it holds up. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| rubric wrote: |
Here�s an anecdote that�s loosely related to the topic. My friend said he learnt a huge lesson here that he has never forgotten.
A couple of years ago a friend of mine was riding the train in Sydney. Across from him was a father and two young boys. Both kids were jumping up and down, making noise, and tearing around the train car. The father was just kind of looking at them but not making any attempt to settle them down. My friend was about to make a comment about taking care of your kids and keeping them under control, but he kept it to himself, thinking it was really none of his business. The man was just a bad father. When the man saw my friend looking in his direction, he smiled tiredly and said �They�ve just come back from the hospital after saying �goodbye� to their mum. They�re a bit hyper, sorry about the noise.� |
 That's a good lesson in not jumping to judgements. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Everyone knows that kids NEED to be allowed to run loose & no-rules, and to act like the out-of-control hellions they are. To scream, run, jump up and down, throw rocks at windows, eat grass, slug each other in the stomach for no reason, torment small animals, and pee their pants. Especially little boys, it's a vital part of the manning-up process. |
No wonder I thought boys were icky around 3rd grade. Y'all were icky back then
Kids and fine dining establishments are a bad idea, both for the other adults present, and the kids. Every child I ever knew would much prefer simple homecooked food or something from a restaurant with a "treat of the week" to getting dressed up in uncomfortable clothes and staring down a meal that requires three different forks to eat.
Kids should definitely be allowed to run wild, provided they've got a relatively safe place to do that in. Backyards an playgrounds are great, but busy streets, clifftops and unsupervised bodies of water aren't so good. Mind you, I've got a faint reminder of why you shouldn't play on cliffs on my right knee, and I think I turned out okay |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| In fact, I hated rules, and spent much time seething as a child. |
And it seems you still hate rules, and you still seethe ... |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Parents should provide some rules and boundries but it is 100% the parents not some weirdo strannger whose job it is to do that. Strangers who shove their noses into someone else's business are out of line. |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: |
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I went to watch Rocky Balboa at the Swansea UCI and behind me were three lads of around 15 or 16, like the naughty kids on the resteraunt/train they just thought they talk and throw popcorn around and make me lose concentration on the film.
No-one said anything but I had enough because it was obvious it wasn't going to stop, so I turned round and looked at them and said:
'Look lads, I'm trying to watch film here so can you belt up?'
They looked outraged that I DARED say something to them and they tried to stare me out (or the biggest of them did) but I turned around and they were silent for 10 minutes and then they started again this time they started kicking the bac of my chair hard.
So 10 minutes before the film ended, I left - I heard the mutterings of
'chicken sh*t' but I went outside to hide behind a pillar for their eventual
exit.
I got them - they were tall and gawky and full of attitude as teenage boys these days tend to be - their bravado dissapeared within 2 minutes when he biggest one was grabbed by the throat and when his physically weak friends tried to attack they were dispelled with the greatest of ease, the biggest one was crapping his pants and started to cry. I'm not proud of that by the way but it had to be done - I have no doubt in my mind they have done this before
Now my point is this, thats probabay the first time ever that they had any kind of disciplinary about their actions ever - no doubt they would have had the typical 'oh please don't do that Timmy' these cute kids running around the resteraunt doing what they want quickly become teenagers
doing what they want and causing proper mayhem.
Thats all very well, but one day - as they lose the baby cuteness factor someone somewhere is going to give them a bloody good hiding. They will be on the ground outraged because some punter is kicking their head off their shoulders because he didn't find the drink throwing joke in the nightclub 'funny' and the rationale of 'it was only a joke' will not cut any ice.
Throwing drinks around in McDonalds and throwing crap at people and shouting in public places like the cinema and resteraunts is the preserve of children but what we are seeing more and more of are teenagers who are the size of adults - by then it is too late to stop. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| sooooooooooooooooooo...you beat up a 15 year old? |
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