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Canada: Federal budget surplus balloons to $14B
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mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject:

sojourner1 wrote:

It could also be viewed that most countries don't need to spend all their money on establishing and maintaining an international domination since that is Americas role.

The question is would America actually want other nations to spend their money establishing this. Canada is the second biggest nation in the world by area but 30 million people. The only way to properly defend that is a strong nuclear deterrent. America, I would say, would rather not have a socialist government making nukes. Americans in the '80s biatched a lot about all the money America was spending defending Japan. But would anyone, including America, want a Japan with a powerful military and a blue water navy? What would China think?

No, America gets its moneys worth.

johnevandavid

Joined: 30 Nov 2005

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: premature imho

The US is entering a major economic downturn, due to the huge financial costs of Iraq, and the housing bubble, cost of oil, and other factors. It would be premature to think Canada won't be affected. Both the US and Canada have governments that are far too beholden to special interests to invest in infrastructure such as cheap railways and alternative energy. I have no idea what is coming up in the next year or so. A lot depends on what America's foreign backers decide to do with their US dollars. But it was not foreign governments that created the situation. That's my foreign policy speech for this month. -J

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject:

twg wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

The Iraq was wasn't illegal - Saddam never gave up his war.

Man, you got religion bad when you became a born again conservative.

Saddam shot at US planes.

He continued to threaten Kuwait

He tried to kill a US president.

He supported terror (not Al Qaeda so much)

and his regime incited violence and taught hate. That is the main reason that there are terrorists.

for the record I though freedom fries was a stupid idea and I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh is an embarassment. I even voted for Gore in 2000. But someone is in denial if they can't see that what was going on before 9-11.

Octavius Hite

Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject:

Quote:

The US is entering a major economic downturn, due to the huge financial costs of Iraq, and the housing bubble, cost of oil, and other factors. It would be premature to think Canada won't be affected.

It will affect Canada, the US is our largest trading partner.

BUT.....

Because of our 12 years of balanced budgets and the fact that all our provinces have done the same and the fact that we amassed huge EI, Welfare, Pension, Education funds means that when the next big recession hits we are in a much better position to adapt. We can quickly cut the budget to keep in the black, we can change/shift/cancel programs to do the same.

The fact remains that in the US the big elephant in the room is the military. If a huge recession hits and the war in Iraq is still going on we will have a late 1970's repeat or worse. Canada is in the completely opposite direction that the US is in this regard.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject:

[quote="Pluto"].

Quote:

Not to bring this thread more off course but this is something I must take issue with. Bush is the President with the power of the veto; which he only used once in his first six years. Cutting taxes, two wars and increasing spending on absurd programs like the bridge to nowhere all contributed to more US dollars in Chinese banks. That is why the Republicans lost Congess and they will most likely lose the White House next year. Republicans need to get back to their core priciples of lower taxes, smaller government and less government regulation, er... government interference.

Steering the thread back on course....

I didn't support Bush's tax cuts nevertheless.

Some very smart people believe that cutting taxes helps the economy by stimulating productivity .

The US had a national security problem that is why there were wars.

Bush didn't cause the stockmarket to go down

he didn't cause the recession.

To put the entire blame for 9-11 and the damage it did to the economy is nonsense especially since it was planned before he was president.

The US has also had to do with an oil shock and that is cause China and India use much more. Nothing to do with Bush.

Quote:

The Canadian dollar is now stronger than the US dollar.

Good it I hope the US can export its way out of trouble. It might also help with outsourcing. No protectionism needed.

South Korea didn't suffer when its currency fell.

Pluto

Joined: 19 Dec 2006

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject:

[quote="Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee"]

Pluto wrote:

Quote:

The Canadian dollar is now stronger than the US dollar.

Good it I hope the US can export its way out of trouble. It might also help with outsourcing. No protectionism needed.

South Korea didn't suffer when its currency fell.

The problem I have with Bush was his uncontrollable spending; not using the veto. Although to be fair, I don't fault him for running a deficit after 9-11. That was to be expected.

Same goes for Congress; a Republican Congress no less. They lost their way, both in being fiscally and ethically irresponsible. Had the Republicans kept to their values, they would still have control of Congress. It is my opinion Republicans lost Congress for these reasons, and not the Iraq war.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Some very smart people believe that cutting taxes helps the economy by stimulating productivity .

Certainly. But when society, say, relies on the government to provide certain services (say roads), if you're not giving them enough money for roads, tax cuts will hurt your infrastructure.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

South Korea didn't suffer when its currency fell.

It didn't? That IMF crisis was just a rounding error?

Korea needs to buy a lot of raw materials to make the things it makes. A very weak won suddenly makes imported oil, iron, etc. a lot more expensive.

Octavius Hite

Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject:

Korea did well with a low Won only because the commodity prices were so low. Now, a low Won and the high prices would destroy the economy, thats why the government hasn't taken any real steps to devalue the Won in tyhe last 4 years.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Some very smart people believe that cutting taxes helps the economy by stimulating productivity .

Certainly. But when society, say, relies on the government to provide certain services (say roads), if you're not giving them enough money for roads, tax cuts will hurt your infrastructure.

Look I didn't support Bush's tax cuts. I have said it many times but I understand the reasoning behind them. As for roads I would prefer they be supported by gas taxes.

If you want to fault Bush for anything fault him for not using 9-11 to jack up gas taxes and tax imported oil.

Especially from the mideast and Venezuala.

Treat drivers like smokers.

Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:32 pm; edited 2 times in total

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

South Korea didn't suffer when its currency fell.

The US is in much better shape than Korea when it comes to raw materials anyway. Korea came out ok.

Two big problems the US has are outsourcing and the trade deficit. Crash the dollar and those two things will get better.

The US is running a big trade deficit one solution maybe is to crash the dollar until it goes away.

Maybe Americans will grow up and find ways to use less oil if oil becomes so expensive.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:21 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

The US is running a big trade deficit one solution maybe is to crash the dollar until it goes away.

One should look at a trade deficit this way: I have a rather large trade deficit with Starbucks. I import a lot from them, they import 0 from me. Conversely, my hagwon has a large trade deficit with me. They import my labor, I import nothing from them. I run a large deficit with Starbucks because they can give me something better than I can produce myself. My hagwon accepts the lopsided trade because I can give them something important (my labor).

Americans buy from the Chinese because they get something cheaper. Instead of paying $50 for a pair of pants, they can pay $20. That $30 they can now spend at a movie theater or a restaurant or put towards a mortgage. Americans are poor at making pants cheaply. But Americans are very good at making movies. You want to pay $10 to see Star Wars or D-War? Who gives you the better value?

Now why do the Chinese sell things to Americans? Because they want American dollars. The Chinese accept American money in trade because the Chinese fully intent to exchange it for American goods, services, or products. They will also invest it back in America. Or maybe they will give it to the EU. And then the EU will spend it back in America.

You'll remember what foreign investment did for Korea to pull it out of the IMF.

What do you think becomes of the money America sends abroad? Hell, if the Chinese burned it, that would be even better because that would mean your own American money is worth more. Your purchasing power would go up. Less money in circulation, more that money is worth. But the Chinese are not fools. So the Chinese are sitting on massive amounts of American dollars. They're going to eventually buy buildings in New York (great for property developers), companies (great for share holders). They'll send their kids to American universities and schools (great for teachers). They'll hire Americans to teach English in China. Sure Americans will be paid in Chinese yuan but when they go home they'll convert it back to those American dollars China has. And then these Americans will go home and buy homes and cars.

If the dollar crashed that would be a huge, huge disaster. That would say "America has nothing of value". $20 pants will now cost Americans $50 again. Americans won't have the $30 to spend on movies or restaurants.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:58 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

The US is running a big trade deficit one solution maybe is to crash the dollar until it goes away.

The trade deficit is not a large concern. It merely reflects that America has a larger consumer market than China, and also that America cannot yet import many of its products to what market exists in China.

Yes, the dollar's fall is a good thing for American manufacturers, but not good for American consumers.

Quote:

A lot depends on what America's foreign backers decide to do with their US dollars. But it was not foreign governments that created the situation.

Very little depends on what those who have bank reserves of American cash do.

thiophene

Joined: 15 Sep 2007

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:12 am Post subject:

Octavius Hite wrote:

thiophene wrote:

Quote:

I wish theyd' give some back to the ttc. Or send their accountants to take care of toront, it's a mess here.

Sorry, no sympathy here. I'm not a Toronto hater but the cities are the last vestaiges of the old way of doing things. T.O. should first cut back the spending on Lesbian-Eskimo Bluesfests before they demand money.

I agree this city has no idea how to budget/prioritize/manage (my street gets cleaned at least twice a week and I live in a nice neighbourhood!)...but those Lesbian-Eskimo Bluesfests, and the like, bring the tourists to this city. And since all we have are tourism and finances, we can't get rid of those lesbian-eskimo bluesfests, and the like. And the lesbian-eskimo bluesfests combined don't really cost the city too much money, considering we get a good return on those investments, it's the other poor managment decisions that puck us up.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject:

thiophene wrote:

Octavius Hite wrote:

thiophene wrote:

Quote:

I wish theyd' give some back to the ttc. Or send their accountants to take care of toront, it's a mess here.

Microsoft began in New Mexico but eventually moved to Seattle. There's a reason why. MS couldn't get good programmers to move to New Mexico. But Seattle, they could sell to talent. Lakes, ocean, mountains, mild climate. There's a reason why financial and tech hubs are in places like San Fran, NYC, London, New York, HK, etc. It's because those are places where people want to live. Talent doesn't want to move to a cement bunker. They want cities with art, culture, good restaurants, parks, etc. Talent are willing to pay for it in terms of higher rents and even taxes.

Society also gains when you "hot box" talent. With the internet maybe this isn't as true, but when you take the smartest people and put them in a lab together, they produce more than spreading them out across the country.

So yeah, surely some investment in things that help enhance a city's image can't be bad. But as I argue here or elsewhere, I think the government should be in the business of providing the infrastructure. The Lesbians want to march, no probs. Lesbians buy old brownstones and fix them up nice. Lesbians open nice coffee shops in the city. Lesbians develop web pages. Let's make the city seem attractive to talented lesbians. So provide the streets, the police services, and clean up the trash.

It's been noted that the American federal government provides direct funds to American cities. For example, the federal government will offer a city 80% of the cost of building a subway. The Canadian system has no such funding model. The American funding model is not without problems. America used to have states with different drinking ages, for example. But the federal government then said "sure, set your own drinking age but if you want this $500 million for your roads, you need to set it at 21."

Now, one of the things that brings people, skills, and jobs to Toronto is the subway. I frankly won't take a job that's not on the subway line. But the subway these days has not kept pace with the growth of the city. It would seem logical that Toronto, which drives a lot of the Canadian economy, should be viewed as an important investment on the part of the federal and provincial government.

The problem, however, is one of voter attitude. Every dollar you give to Toronto translates into lost votes outside of Toronto. It's simply not politically popular. Toronto won't vote conservative. So the conservatives won't gain votes building a new subway line. They'll only lose votes outside TO. Toronto will vote liberal. Liberals will arguably lose more votes outside of Toronto than it will gain in Toronto.

Last edited by mindmetoo on Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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