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Bush: War inevitable
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Igotthisguitar:

Congrats on winning this month's "Most Hysterical Leftist Reaction" Award.

Your juxtaposition of these two leaders shows that you lack any sense of historical proportionality. Well done; you're now certifiable for induction into the Keane Hall of Fame.
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
gang ah jee:

First, a word of advice: pull the trigger

and now this:

Quote:
Duh. Don't you claim to hold a PhD in 'Second Language Studies'?


So what's your beef? Or are you just desperate to make a jab? I was merely pointing out that BabelFish does not provide translation. And your definition from Wikipedia only reconfirms what I said. Transliteration can be done via machine with decreasing accuracy the more divergent in structure and usage the two languages are (e.g., Spanish transliterates better than Korean from English). Translation is more than a skill; it's an art.

What the hell are you talking about? This is basic undergrad stuff in your own field.

You should be ashamed of yourself, fake.
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keane



Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gang ah jee wrote:
stevemcgarrett wrote:
keane surmised:

Quote:
Those translators are pretty iffy.


That's because they're not translations, dolt. They're transliterations. Rolling Eyes

Wikipedia wrote:
Transliteration is the practice of transcribing a word or text written in one writing system into another writing system. It is also the system of rules for that practice.

Duh. Don't you claim to hold a PhD in 'Second Language Studies'?


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

What one claims and what is true are often not the same, eh? Stevie, stevie, stevie...

Stevie, my poor boy, transliterations is, um, this: ajumma. Translation is this: con carne = with meat.

You so cuuuuute!
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stevemcgarrett



Joined: 24 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gang ah jee and keane (aka dumb and dumber):

"Transliteration refers to the verbatim spoken or written representation of one language by another. Word for word transference between two languages is one example of transliteration. However, sometimes the meaning of the original message is not preserved by verbatim transference." [which is where translation takes over]

Transliteration is not context-dependent and therefore can only approximate meaning at best.
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
gang ah jee and keane (aka dumb and dumber):

"Transliteration refers to the verbatim spoken or written representation of one language by another. Word for word transference between two languages is one example of transliteration. However, sometimes the meaning of the original message is not preserved by verbatim transference." [which is where translation takes over]

Transliteration is not context-dependent and therefore can only approximate meaning at best.

Steve, you idiot. You sourced that quote from an old, obscure article about transliteration between signed language and spoken language : http://web.syr.edu/~clostran/tecunitxt.html . Don't know a whole lot about your field, do you?

No wonder you chose not to attribute. Hah, fake.


Last edited by gang ah jee on Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:19 am; edited 2 times in total
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gang ah gee: why are you in such a bad mood? Bloody hell - it's Friday night and you should be out getting pissed, man!
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
gang ah gee: why are you in such a bad mood? Bloody hell - it's Friday night and you should be out getting pissed, man!

Oh, going travelling early morning tomorrow so best to stay around the house today. Sorry if I brought the mood of the board down by making fun of stevemcgarrett, The World's Stupidest PhD.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
gang ah gee: why are you in such a bad mood? Bloody hell - it's Friday night and you should be out getting pissed, man!


Bad mood? Welcome to finally seeing the real Gang ah jee, Big_Bird.

Just another bitter, long-term grudge-holding, off-the-scale-with-his-self-righteousness, internet purist -- and coward -- who comes here to throw rocks, where it is safe for him to talk to people in ways he can only dream of in real life.

Chuckling.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemcgarrett wrote:
So what's your beef? Or are you just desperate to make a jab? I was merely pointing out that BabelFish does not provide translation...


Yes, he is lost in his own petty world. Unable to work and play well with others, especially those who do not worship Chomsky.

I recognize your point: my understanding is that "translation" refers to telling us the meaning of something and "transliteration" deals with converting words from one language into their exact equivalent in another with little consideration to meaning.

We run into many problems transliterating. For example, "to excite" in English and "excitar" in Spanish carry, at times, entirely different meanings. One is, in fact, much better off using "agitar" to translate "to excite" -- because "excitar" refers exclusively to sexual contexts.

Take another example, this time English-to-Spanish: "to be" in English requires a meaning decision when expressing the idea in Spanish, where you must decide if you mean "ser" or "estar." Computers cannot do that. And no need to even get into syntax difficulties, or those difficulties that prepositions and phrasal verbs pose, either.

Just a couple of obvious and easy examples in a sea of examples showing why programs like the one Manner cited, above, while useful if there is nothing else available, are to be taken with a huge grain of salt.


Last edited by Gopher on Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:41 am; edited 5 times in total
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Big_Bird wrote:
gang ah gee: why are you in such a bad mood? Bloody hell - it's Friday night and you should be out getting pissed, man!


Bad mood? Welcome to finally seeing the real Gang ah jee, Big_Bird.

Just another bitter, long-term grudge-holding, off-the-scale-with-his-self-righteousness, internet purist -- and coward -- who comes here to throw rocks, where it is safe for him to talk to people in ways he can only dream of in real life.

Chuckling.

Oh nerdMarine, how I've missed thee. How's life since the Laundry Corps (or is it 'Laundry-Corps')?

PLUS!! Gopher is in apoplexy right now! How many times will he edit the above post? Prizes for the correct guess! (I guess four)
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Big_Bird.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate appreciation.

Very Happy
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CFR's Hart Suggests False Flag Event For Iran War
Tacit warning to Iranian government suggests staged event may be used
to ensure "bombs fall on your head"


Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Thursday, Sept 27, 2007

Council on Foreign Relations member Gary Hart, famed for stating that Americans will die en-mass on home soil this century, and for declaring 48 hours after 9/11 that it should be used "to carry out a new world order", has written a scathing letter to the leaders of Iran clearly warning that the U.S. government has a history of staging provocations in order to initiate conflict with other nations and that Iran could be next.

Hart references the sinking of the USS Maine in Havana harbor in 1898, which led to the Spanish American war, as well as the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which was ultimately the catalyst for airstrikes on Vietnam.



Why does Hart reference these two cases? Because they are both examples of staged managed events that were used to coerce the American public into supporting war Idea

The sinking of the Maine was immediately blamed on the Spanish, with the innovator of yellow journalism William Randolph-Hearst enflaming anti-Spanish sentiment in his papers by definitively claiming that it was a Spanish plot. No reliable evidence was ever produced linking Spain to the event and it is now widely believed that the event was at best a mechanical failure or at worst a false flag operation.

Similarly the Gulf of Tonkin incident saw President Johnson accuse North Vietnamese PT boats of attacking strike carries in the gulf, the USS Maddox and the USS Turner Joy. Documents and tapes released via the Freedom of Information Act have since shown that Johnson knew that there were no PT boats and no attacks, but still went ahead with lying to the American public on national TV to garner support for escalating the war in Vietnam. Johnson also had the NSA fake intelligence data to make it appear as if the two US ships had been lost.

Hart, one of the instigators of the Homeland Security apparatus that has evolved since 9/11, then goes on to state that American people are reluctant to go to war unless provoked and coldly remarks "For historians of American wars the question is whether we provoke provocations."

He then mentions the Iraq war and refers to how the public were duped into accepting the invasion via the spectre of 9/11. Hart writes "even in this instance, we were led to believe that the mass murderer of American civilians, Osama bin Laden, was lurking, literally or figuratively, in the vicinity of Baghdad."

To those who do not read history Gary Hart's letter makes for a confusing read, but to those who know anything about staged provocations, the intent is clear. Hart is declaring that the elite controlled US government has attacked countries based on false pretenses in the past and will gladly do so again.

Hart's declarations carry the same sentiment as those of fellow globalist Zbigniew Brzezinski earlier this year. The Former National Security Advisor and founding member of the elite policy making group the Trilateral Commission implicitly warned a Senate Foreign Relations Committee that an attack on Iran could be launched following a staged provocation in Iraq or a false flag terror attack within the U.S.

Brzezinski alluded to the potential for the Bush administration to manufacture a false flag Gulf of Tonkin type incident in describing a "plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran," which would revolve around "some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the US blamed on Iran, culminating in a �defensive� US military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.�

Texas Congressman and Presidential candidate Ron Paul has also recently warned that a "Gulf of Tonkin like event" may be used to provoke air strikes on Iran as numerous factors collide to heighten expectations that America may soon be embroiled in its third war in six years.

Here is Gary Hart's letter in full:

Unsolicited Advice to the Government of Iran

Presuming that you are not actually ignorant enough to desire war with the United States, you might be well advised to read the history of the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana harbor in 1898 and the history of the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964.

Having done so, you will surely recognize that Americans are reluctant to go to war unless attacked. Until Pearl Harbor, we were even reluctant to get involved in World War II. For historians of American wars the question is whether we provoke provocations.

Given the unilateral U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, you are obviously thinking the rules have changed. Provocation is no longer required to take America to war. But even in this instance, we were led to believe that the mass murderer of American civilians, Osama bin Laden, was lurking, literally or figuratively, in the vicinity of Baghdad.

Given all this, you would probably be well advised to keep your forces, including clandestine forces, as far away from the Iraqi border as you can. You might even consider bringing in some neighbors to verify that you are not shipping arms next door. Tone down the rhetoric on Zionism. You've established your credentials with those in your world who thrive on that.

If it makes you feel powerful to hurl accusations at the American eagle, have at it. Sticks and stones, etc. But, for the next sixteen months or so, you should not only not take provocative actions, you should not seem to be doing so.

For the vast majority of Americans who seek no wider war, in the Middle East or elsewhere, don't tempt fate. Don't give a certain vice president we know the justification he is seeking to attack your country. That is unless you happen to like having bombs fall on your head.

INFOWARS: BECAUSE THERE'S A WAR ON FOR YOUR MIND

http://infowars.net/articles/september2007/270907Hart.htm
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary Hart has been reduced to "the Council on Foreign Relations's Gary Hart?"
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