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| How often does your computer crash? |
| I use a Mac and it never crashes. |
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25% |
[ 11 ] |
| I use a PC running Windows Vista and it crashes about once a day. |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| I use a PC running Windows Vista and it crashes once a week or less. |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| I use a PC running Windows Vista and I can't remember the last time it crashed. |
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16% |
[ 7 ] |
| I use a PC running Windows XP and it crashes about once a day. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I use a PC running Windows XP and it crashes once a week or less. |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| I use a PC running Windows XP and I can't remember the last time it crashed. |
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39% |
[ 17 ] |
| I use a PC running Linux and it crashes about once a day. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I use a PC running Linux and it crashes once a week or less. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I use a PC running Linux and I can't remember the last time it crashed. |
|
11% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 43 |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Op, I lost interest when I saw how long your post was (as well as other posts). Wow, you have a lot to say! j/k  |
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Zutronius
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Location: Suncheon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| I run Linux Ubuntu Studio and I get a crash maybe once per month (usually from poorly streamed video). |
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flummuxt
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: |
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To whoever is having frequent crashes with Windows Vista, you may want to reinstall Vista from scratch.
Vista has a compatibility problem with older programs. If you try to install one that is not compatible, even with the forced method, you may get a faulty or partial install. You may not be able to remove the program, too.
My computer got all mucked up with problems like this. Finally, I bit the bullet, backed up my data (it turned out I didn't need to because I have it all on a separate drive) and reinstalled Vista from scratch. I then did all the updates from Microsoft, loaded anti-virus and anti-piracy software and installed my programs.
You may also want to try another web browser if you are crashing while surfing the web. I use Opera mainly. I use Netscape again, now, but had big problems with one of their earlier versions freezing - just the browser.
You also, of course, need to make sure your hardware drivers are up to date. If you bought a new computer with Vista early on, they may need updating. You can check the manufacturer's website.
Some people like to reinstall Windows periodically. This seems to have been more of an issue with the Windows 98 family, at least according to some rumors. But if you add and remove programs a lot, this may help. I generally like a nice clean install; kinda like spring cleaning.
Part of the problem is that when you install a program, sometimes they add stuff you don't really want or need, unless you use the custom install feature and read closely. So a fresh start cleans out the programs you don't remember installing. It also cleans up the registry; but a registry cleaner can do this, too.
Turning off the automatic features, like auto defrag and auto virus scan, may help. I turn off indexing; can't figure what I would need it for.
If you start from a clean OS install, install your programs correctly, do periodic piracy scans, say once a week, etc., and finally, do one defrag, you should have a smooth running computer. |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| flummuxt wrote: |
To whoever is having frequent crashes with Windows Vista, you may want to reinstall Vista from scratch.
Vista has a compatibility problem with older programs. If you try to install one that is not compatible, even with the forced method, you may get a faulty or partial install. You may not be able to remove the program, too.
My computer got all mucked up with problems like this. Finally, I bit the bullet, backed up my data (it turned out I didn't need to because I have it all on a separate drive) and reinstalled Vista from scratch. I then did all the updates from Microsoft, loaded anti-virus and anti-piracy software and installed my programs.
You may also want to try another web browser if you are crashing while surfing the web. I use Opera mainly. I use Netscape again, now, but had big problems with one of their earlier versions freezing - just the browser.
You also, of course, need to make sure your hardware drivers are up to date. If you bought a new computer with Vista early on, they may need updating. You can check the manufacturer's website.
Some people like to reinstall Windows periodically. This seems to have been more of an issue with the Windows 98 family, at least according to some rumors. But if you add and remove programs a lot, this may help. I generally like a nice clean install; kinda like spring cleaning.
Turning off the automatic features, like auto defrag and auto virus scan, may help. I turn off indexing; can't figure what I would need it for.
If you start from a clean OS install, install your programs correctly, do periodic piracy scans, say once a week, etc., and finally, do one defrag, you should have a smooth running computer. |
See, this is what I don't get about Windows users: You have to bend over backwards to make your system run. At least that's what it sounds like from reading your post, flummuxt. I counted about 13 separate steps just so you can get your computer to work. Then you tell people that you have no problems. The only thing I can figure is that you just consider these kinds steps part of normal computer user experience. I first started using Mac back on version 8.9 and am now on 10.4.10 and have never, ever had such a hassle. When I hear things like this from Windows users and then hear them tell me how great Windows is, I look at them the same way I look at fundie Christians who tell me the earth is only 6000 years old.
As with anything, whatever tickles your pickle. Don't like Mac, think they suck, think us Mac users all drone fan-boys sold on a slick marketing campaign, I really don't care. But you'll never convince me that Windows offers a better user experience. Even if I knew nothing else, the steps required to get Vista running in just this one post would make me think long and hard about buying a WinPC.
-S- |
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flummuxt
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: |
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AbbeFaria:
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See, this is what I don't get about Windows users: You have to bend over backwards to make your system run. At least that's what it sounds like from reading your post, flummuxt. I counted about 13 separate steps just so you can get your computer to work. Then you tell people that you have no problems. The only thing I can figure is that you just consider these kinds steps part of normal computer user experience. I first started using Mac back on version 8.9 and am now on 10.4.10 and have never, ever had such a hassle. When I hear things like this from Windows users and then hear them tell me how great Windows is, I look at them the same way I look at fundie Christians who tell me the earth is only 6000 years old.
As with anything, whatever tickles your pickle. Don't like Mac, think they suck, think us Mac users all drone fan-boys sold on a slick marketing campaign, I really don't care. But you'll never convince me that Windows offers a better user experience. Even if I knew nothing else, the steps required to get Vista running in just this one post would make me think long and hard about buying a WinPC.
-S- |
Step A: Read my original post.
I never said Vista was flawless. It is flawed. Most new versions of Windows have some bugs, Vista moreso. By now, most of the bugs have been worked out. A good clean reinstall should solve this person's problems with crashes.
Windows requires periodic maintenance. I prefer to do it manually. But you can set it to do all of these things automatically. Most people who own Windows have figured out how to do this. Others use it at work and the system does all of this automatically.
If you can't figure out how to do things like install an antivirus program and set it to "automatic," then perhaps you are right, and a Mac may be what you need. But don't tell me new Mac OSs don't have bugs and security holes. (See original post.) And don't tell me Macs are easy to use. I find Windows far easier. I don't have memorize weird apple key commands.
Step 2: Read the poll.
One person reported significant problems with Windows. One.
This is the honor system, and I will trust that this wasn't a malicious Mac user. Vista properly installed and maintained should not crash frequently.
I was the person who answered that Vista crashes once a week or less. I can't remember exactly the last time it crashed, but I know it has, so I picked that option. Hmmm, now I remember it. The time it "crashed" I actually had forgotten to plug in my laptop and the battery ran out. So maybe that doesn't count. But I know it has crashed at least once or twice.
The Macs I used crashed just about every day. I gave up asking the IT guys for help at the second job because they were too busy helping everyone else with their Mac problems. Want to know why? It was a recently released Mac OS on new computers with new software. At the first job, it was old computers with old software. Maybe the outdated Apple browsers couldn't handle websites? I just backed up my work about every five minutes. Read the original post.
I don't know what the 13 steps are you counted, but most of them are things you only have to do once, or maybe once a year. I know a lot of people who aren't terribly bright who own PCs, and they seem to manage to keep them running. This isn't rocket science.
Have you ever installed your Mac OS from scratch? Ever install programs on your Mac? How many steps does it take to get everything running smoothly? Do you ever do any maintenance on your Mac? Ever remove programs? Ever update programs? Ever update the OS? Ever update drivers? |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| flummuxt wrote: |
| Have you ever installed your Mac OS from scratch? Ever install programs on your Mac? How many steps does it take to get everything running smoothly? Do you ever do any maintenance on your Mac? Ever remove programs? Ever update programs? Ever update the OS? Ever update drivers? |
I did once, on my old iMac. I had a hard drive go bad and had to buy a new one. I salvaged what I could and then had to put in a new one and do a fresh install. Once the OS was installed, I ran software update to get the current versions of everything and I was back running fine. So as far as steps needed, maybe two or three. It's been awhile though, so I might have forgotten something.
As far as deleting an app, it's Hard drive>Applications>select the program I want to delete>delete. I don't have to run an uninstall to delete, I just throw it away and it's gone. As far as maintenance, I do a 'repair preferences' about once a month. Which reminds me, it's about time I do that. I don't have to defrag the hard drive though. I had heard that the reason Windows users have to defrag is because they use something called NTSB, but not really sure what that is or if it's really the cause.
My system does a check every week to see if updates are available for any of my core software. If there are I install them and reboot if it says it's required. I've never had a problem with drivers. When I bought my Lacie external, it came with an install disc, but that was for Windows only. Same with my digital camera. It even recognized my Korean cell phone.
I wasn't trying to say that Macs are problem free, but after living my life in this Windows world and the last several years on a Mac, it appears to be less problem prone then a WinPC. You know some people who had problems with Macs, I know some people who've had problems with PCs. My favorite example is the buddy I had who had to do fresh installs every month. But this is really a zero sum game. |
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ARTCC
Joined: 26 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: really? |
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| SHANE02 wrote: |
| Using a PC , reinstall every 6 months, can't remember a crash. |
Just curious - and really, please don't flame, I am asking this question in all earnestness - is this really still standard operating procedure for Windows users?
I haven't owned a Windows PC since '98, and back then an IT guy I knew told me I should be doing that.
He seemed to know what he was talking about - but come on, that was back in the bad old days of '98 - surely things are better now, no?
In my 9 years of Mac use I have never known this to be necessary. Now - don't get excitable - maintenance is necessary on a Mac, and I would never claim otherwise - cleaning caches, deleting corrupted fonts or preference files, scanning for tracking cookies - these things have to be done sometimes. The most extreme troubleshooting action I can think of would be deleting a user account. Aside from a drive failure, I can't imagine how things would get so bunged up that you would need a complete re-install of the OS and all programs. |
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ublove
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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The last couple posts remind me why I appreciate Mac OSX. It's not so much the stability -- I run osx and windows side-by-side at work, and can't remember the last time xp crashed on me -- but the peace of mind I get using osx. When I was running xp exclusively, the urge to reformat my hd and reinstall xp would set in every 3 - 6 months. I never get this feeling with osx.
On another note, to the mac users out there, I would recommend a utility program called Onyx. It'll take care of all your maintenance tasks with a push of a button (under Automation), and it's free. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: really? |
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| ARTCC wrote: |
| SHANE02 wrote: |
| Using a PC , reinstall every 6 months, can't remember a crash. |
Just curious - and really, please don't flame, I am asking this question in all earnestness - is this really still standard operating procedure for Windows users?
I haven't owned a Windows PC since '98, and back then an IT guy I knew told me I should be doing that.
He seemed to know what he was talking about - but come on, that was back in the bad old days of '98 - surely things are better now, no?
In my 9 years of Mac use I have never known this to be necessary. Now - don't get excitable - maintenance is necessary on a Mac, and I would never claim otherwise - cleaning caches, deleting corrupted fonts or preference files, scanning for tracking cookies - these things have to be done sometimes. The most extreme troubleshooting action I can think of would be deleting a user account. Aside from a drive failure, I can't imagine how things would get so bunged up that you would need a complete re-install of the OS and all programs. |
It's not standard and for a lot of people it's not necessary. But, for those of us who install and uninstall hundreds of one-off programs and do a lot of fiddling and experimenting with settings and changing and swapping hardware and whatnot, it's not a bad idea. A complete reinstall isn't necessary and we could do it with a repair install, but because of the aforementioned new hardware and the fact that a complete install isn't all that difficult, we do that. |
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Keepongoing
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| mine does not crash-it is a Mac |
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flummuxt
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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As I mentioned in an earlier post, there was a rumor going around that Windows 98 needed to be reinstalled about every six months or it would slow down. Don't know if it is true. Certainly isn't true of other Windows versions.
As to defragmenting, you know if Apple's file system was so superior, you would think other systems would follow their lead. But maybe, just maybe, it's not.
I did a little checking, and it seems that you can't fill your hard drive 100 percent full. One source said if you fill it more than 90 percent full you risk corrupting your file records.
It sounds like Apple records files contiguously. Nice. But. Then it would need to be doing a defrag after virtually every file deletion to reorganize the empty space to make room for the next file by moving the empty space over to the rest of the empty space. This is what Windows calls defragmenting.
You don't like to defragment a computer all the time because you risk wearing out your hard drive prematurely. I defrag about twice a year, though I don't really need to, but what the heck. I put the program files in one virtual drive and the data files in the other. If the data files are fragmented, who cares? The program files are the only ones really affecting the speed of the computer, and mainly the OS files.
As to defragmenting being related th NTFS or whatever, that's not the case. The FAT, file allocation table, system has been used since mainframes, I believe, and all of these systems can become fragmented.
Frankly, aside from network servers or obsessive compulsives, most people don't really pay much or any attention to defragmenting hard drives.
Or Apple users. I do see, however, that there are programs to defrag a Mac.
***
Keepongoing
| Quote: |
| mine does not crash-it is a Mac |
See previous posts and poll, above. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: really? |
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| ARTCC wrote: |
| SHANE02 wrote: |
| Using a PC , reinstall every 6 months, can't remember a crash. |
is this really still standard operating procedure for Windows users?
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| Quote: |
I haven't owned a Windows PC since '98, and back then an IT guy I knew told me I should be doing that.
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It is advisable for people who install/uninstall a lot of things where there is a buildup of leftover files in the system directories and in the registry (though you can get tools to clear unnecessary files and registry keys for you at a touch of a button). I personally have never done this because I almost always install the same suite of software and nothing else. Any file buildup is usually only in temp or internet directories. Since XP, Windows has become more stringent towards software legibility although some such as media players can still play up the hardware (especially video codecs).
My mum is still using Windows 98, no problem since she is the only user and only uses her computer to check e-mails, type on Word and print.
| Quote: |
He seemed to know what he was talking about - but come on, that was back in the bad old days of '98 - surely things are better now, no?
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During the Windows 98 era, millions of software free or paid was written and while they all worked on Windows, they didn't necessarily work with each other. Hence the need to reinstall every now and then to clear up the broken or incorrect library link between files. Its actually good practice because with Windows you get free upgrades and you appreciate running a clean OS.
Every OS needs a system clean, whether its a 2% or a 90% rebuild. In Windows it is actually extremely easy to backup a working system onto a DVD (and even run the same system off it).
As for defragging, this is only necessary if the drive in use is 20% fragmented (rare). It happens more often in Windows because they use a different algorithm for managing files compared to BSD/Linux. However if the file system is nearly full, then both systems will suffer a substantial performance loss (hence the need to defrag).
To defrag in linux its -> fsck (in case anyone is wondering).
You can actually have a storage partition on Windows that is using a linux based file system like ext2 or ext3 (to reduce the need for defragging) by installing a driver. Simple really.
RL - Is a happy camper now that he's able to turn his little 5 year old Shuttle PC running Duron(!!) into a full HD media center running MCE/XP.
Last edited by rocklee on Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: really? |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
It's not standard and for a lot of people it's not necessary. But, for those of us who install and uninstall hundreds of one-off programs and do a lot of fiddling and experimenting with settings and changing and swapping hardware and whatnot, it's not a bad idea. A complete reinstall isn't necessary and we could do it with a repair install, but because of the aforementioned new hardware and the fact that a complete install isn't all that difficult, we do that. |
Sorry I didn't see this, yeah what he said. |
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SHANE02
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: really? |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| ARTCC wrote: |
| SHANE02 wrote: |
| Using a PC , reinstall every 6 months, can't remember a crash. |
Just curious - and really, please don't flame, I am asking this question in all earnestness - is this really still standard operating procedure for Windows users?
I haven't owned a Windows PC since '98, and back then an IT guy I knew told me I should be doing that.
He seemed to know what he was talking about - but come on, that was back in the bad old days of '98 - surely things are better now, no?
In my 9 years of Mac use I have never known this to be necessary. Now - don't get excitable - maintenance is necessary on a Mac, and I would never claim otherwise - cleaning caches, deleting corrupted fonts or preference files, scanning for tracking cookies - these things have to be done sometimes. The most extreme troubleshooting action I can think of would be deleting a user account. Aside from a drive failure, I can't imagine how things would get so bunged up that you would need a complete re-install of the OS and all programs. |
It's not standard and for a lot of people it's not necessary. But, for those of us who install and uninstall hundreds of one-off programs and do a lot of fiddling and experimenting with settings and changing and swapping hardware and whatnot, it's not a bad idea. A complete reinstall isn't necessary and we could do it with a repair install, but because of the aforementioned new hardware and the fact that a complete install isn't all that difficult, we do that. |
Right.
And I should have elaborated. I have a "base" (ghost) image which includes only the OS and the apps I really do need. It's tweaked and fast. It installs from an external disk in about 20 minutes, and requires no user input after once the process is set in motion.
I hate having a slow computer, I hate waiting, but I love tinkering.
Are you guys saying that a Mac will not get slower over time? Because I wouldn't know. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: Re: really? |
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| SHANE02 wrote: |
| And I should have elaborated. I have a "base" (ghost) image which includes only the OS and the apps I really do need. It's tweaked and fast. It installs from an external disk in about 20 minutes, and requires no user input after once the process is set in motion. |
Yeah me too - 15-20 minutes later and it's like you have a virgin computer.
| SHANE02 wrote: |
| Are you guys saying that a Mac will not get slower over time? Because I wouldn't know. |
damn good question. |
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