Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Pligganease]

[canuckistan]

In public institutions, headscarves ok. Full face veil, not ok.

If you don't want to be "seen in public", then don't work in a public institution.

[yawarakaijin]

Ok, now that you have finally admitted that I am more enlightened than you I can rest easy.

It wasn't my intent to come off as trying to be morally superior. I have no doubt that there are areas where people who dress like this are abused and oppressed but I don't believe that is ALL there is to it.

Do you really think muslim parents wake up in the morning and think "hmmm, I wonder what the best way to oppress my daughter is today? I wonder how I can make my precious daughter's like as miserable as possible."

I am going to throw something out to you. What if, just if, and I know it is hard to comprehend. What if certain people believed that modesty is an important virtue. What if some crazy, messed up group of people decided that how a woman looks should play absolutely no role is how she is viewed by society. What if this group of people has seen how women are portrayed in other societies and decided it was immoral. Let's say, just as immoral as forcing a woman to wear a veil. What if their method to combat what they viewed as immoral was to require women to cover up? Can't you even admit that other cultures have the capacity to view or society and condem it as immoral the same way we do theirs?


My main point of contention is how we in the west automatically condem something exclusively through our own eyes. I have no problem with a culture setting and defining its own norms and practices but why is it that only OUR set of norms and practices are given validity? Do you not think it even slightly vain to proclaim our cultures values as being "universal"? It doesn't seem like a healthy position to open up debate from.

I'm not apologist, nor moral relatavist, but I think absolutely absurd to attack an issue with the premise that only our viewpoint is the correct one. Hell, we rarely even argue whether or not our stance is correct. It's all a moot point really because we don't even acknowledge that other viewpoints even exist.

[Pligganease]

[yawarakaijin]

This is the way numerous muslims have explained it to me. If you explain to me why I should wholeheartedly accept the western, and lone interpretation of why it is done, then we can end it.

[Pligganease]

That's the biggest joke in poor taste I've ever heard. However, let's take it at face value.

[JMO]

[JMO]

[yawarakaijin]

I have no problems with judging a society on it's merits. What I do have a problem with is sweeping, ethnocentric explanations as to why things are the way they are. I have a problem with one side launching an argument from the position that their view alone is universally correct.

There is no doubt that backwards thinking played a large role in the promotion and usage of the burqa or other religious symbols. It is a very different thing to say that that originally backwards thinking is the sole reason why these symbols are still worn today. Your oversimplifying of the situation hints of ethnocentrism does it not? It's a black and white issue from my point of view, thus it's simply a black and white matter.

Muslims themselves have been debating this issue. Hence you have modern muslim women in North America choosing to cover themselves. You have different percentages of women following this custom in different islamic countries. You have some Iranian women who prefer a miniskirt and high heels and others who prefer to dress more moderatly.

My point was... I wouldn't wholeheartedly accpet a Taliban's critique of modern western civilization anymore than I would accept some farmer from Iowa's take on modern islamic country. While both may have a valid point or two to make, I would hardly accept their interpretation as being definitive.

The original op was about the wearing/banning of religious symbols in Canada. I know enough modern muslim women in Canada who have chosen to wear a veil for reasons much different than you stated.

[Pligganease]

[yawarakaijin]

[Pligganease]

[Alyallen]

[yawarakaijin]

Well lets just leave it at I'm missing your point and your missing mine shall we? The Bush comment was tongue in cheek, it wasn't made to infer that you were some Bushie or anything of the sort.

I have admitted that some women may wear a veil due to pressures from the outside. I take issue with you painting an entire culture as being so monolithic.

Is it absolutely beyond reason for you to believe than an educated, muslim woman might actually wish to wear a veil as a symbol of religious devotion?

[Pligganease]