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Is democracy good for everyone?
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Well, is it?
Yes, of course.
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Well...maybe for some more than others
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
No, it isn't
36%
 36%  [ 7 ]
No, at least not the way it is currently practised
26%
 26%  [ 5 ]
Undecided
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
I could not give a rat's arse
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 19

Author Message
mack4289



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You hear a lot of complaining about complacent citizens in a democracy, but here's the paradox: the more complacent citizens are in a democracy, the better the country is doing. People only get involved on a large scale when things are really bad. If people in a democracy aren't concerned with how their country works, that probably means it works pretty well.

Not that I support ignorance, I wish people were more well informed. But the fact that they aren't isn't necessarily a cause for alarm.
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

contrarian wrote:
Sociialism it the abtuthesis of democracy.


Definitely sig-worthy (not because it's brilliant). Mr. Green

Socialism is not the antithesis of democracy. The above drivel doesn't survive basic logical analysis. Democracy is a form of government in which power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system. The antithesis of democracy is the result of inserting "not" before the principles in my underline. That is not a valid definition of socialism, therefore socialism is not the antithesis of democracy.

Somebody needs to give their tools of thought a thorough sharpen. Mr. Green
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contrarian



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spinoza:

Let's look at your take, word by word:

"Socialism is not the antithesis of democracy." So far you have said nothing but the usual juvenile - did so, dod not - crap.

"The above drivel doesn't survive basic logical analysis." More of the same, crap.

"Democracy is a form of government in which power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system." A nice remiedial political science 90 for dummies definition.
Let's see what it says with the "not" in place.

Democracy is a form of government in which power NOT is vested in the people and exercise directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system. That does not make any sense whatever, but if we give you the benefit of the doubt and move the NOT to the start of the italics we get this:

Democracy is a form of government in which power is NOT vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system. That is where the NOT goes at the beginning of the italic / underline marking. That makes more sense but gives a meaning in which democracy has no personal or electoral use of people, any or all of them

There is one other place to put the NOT.

Democracy is a form of government in which power is NOT vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Try again putz, it still doesn't work. May after a retake of remidal logic 91, for dummies.

Shocked [/b][/u]
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are rather a daft old bugger, aren't you? Mr. Green Not only is your typing and spelling absolutely appalling, reading ability appears to be an issue as well.

I'm going to simply copy and paste what I originally said and hope you get it this time after a brief explanation.

Quote:
Socialism is not the antithesis of democracy. The above drivel doesn't survive basic logical analysis. Democracy is a form of government in which power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system. The antithesis of democracy is the result of inserting "not" before the principles in my underline. That is not a valid definition of socialism, therefore socialism is not the antithesis of democracy.


Look at where I wrote "in my underline". Native English speakers know where to place "not" instinctively and will read the relevant part as: [Contrarian claims that socialism] is a form of government in which power is not vested in the people and not exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

That is the antithesis of democracy, so antitheses (that's the plural, grand dad, okay?) of democracy will be things like fascism, communism, Islamic states.

The point stands. Your claim "socialism is the antithesis" of democracy has been exposed as the senile rantings of a clueless old fool, since Socialism is a form of government in which power is not vested in the people and not exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system is not a valid definition of socialism.
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contrarian



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You motto is Bullsh1t baffles brains.

Double negatives are a no-no. Bad puppy!
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Contrarian claimed that socialism is the antithesis of democracy.

2. Democracy is a form of government in which power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

3. The antithesis of democracy, therefore, is a form of government in which power is not vested in the people and not exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

4. No definition of socialism is �a form of government in which power is not vested in the people and not exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system�.

5. Therefore, socialism is not the antithesis of democracy.
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contrarian



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are negatives, separated by an "and" still double negatives.

Socialism as a form of government that places collective rights above individual rights, and does not respect property rights. For this reason and hose noted above it is not truly democratic.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that just demonstrates it's different, not that it is the antithesis! Razz
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

contrarian wrote:
Are negatives, separated by an "and" still double negatives.


Ain't no double negatives in the above whatsoever. Someone responsible for the sentences "You motto is Bullsh1t baffles brains" and "Sociialism it the abtuthesis of democracy" has absolutely no opinion on language anyway.

Quote:
Socialism as a form of government that places collective rights above individual rights, and does not respect property rights.


It's communism that advocates abolition of private property ownership - not socialism. All communists are socialists, but not all socialists are communists. Socialism advocates state ownership of industry in which the production and distribution of goods and services are controlled substantially by the community rather than privately (where cooperation rather than competition guides economic activity). That would be a neutral description of socialism rather than the heavily biased "rights" description you gave.

Quote:
For this reason and hose noted above it is not truly democratic.


For this reason and what noted above?

A socialist society and economy is entirely compatible with a representative democracy, especially if that's a system a democratic state has voted for.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

contrarian is making the elementary mistake of confusing political arrangements with economic arrangements.

I would also like to point out that contrarian didn't say 'abtuthesis' = 'antithesis'. Presumably, 'abtuthesis' is a new idea which he needs to educate all of us on. For that matter, 'sociialism' may be a new animal on the politcal scene. He should inform us on this.

Until he does, the opposite of democracy is autocracy (monarchy in one of its forms).
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