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How does SK treat NK human rights activists?
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GaryCooper



Joined: 10 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:01 am    Post subject: How does SK treat NK human rights activists? Reply with quote

This is one of the must-read articles about North Korean human rights activism:
"South Korea�s Spoilers" By Dr. Norbert Vollertsen
The article is here:
http://chosunjournal.com/2006/11/04/south-koreas-spoilers/

Excerpts:

SEOUL, Oct 18, 2006 -- For six years now I have been active in lobbying for human rights in North Korea. My associates and I provide detailed information to Western journalists. We organize protests at the Panmunjom border with North Korea, help North Korean refugees rush past guards and enter Western embassies in China, and coordinate the flight of North Korean �boat people.�

[...]

...never could I have imagined that the most difficult part of creating an awareness of human rights abuses in North Korea would be to raise a voice in South Korea.

Here in Seoul, I get around 1,400 hate-e-mails per day. As a result of an e-mail campaign organized by South Korean students, my e-mail account is often sabotaged. I am caught in the middle of an Internet campaign titled, ominously, �How to get rid of Norbert Vollertsen.� Suggestions include �Execute him,� �Kill him,� etc. People ? South Korean people ?shout and even spit at me on the street. My activities to help the enslaved people of the North ?such as my boat-people project ? are sabotaged by South Korean intelligence. My telephone is tapped, and I have minders following me the whole day. All in all, although I�m here in Seoul, I feel like I�m still in Pyongyang!

Yet for all the horrors I witnessed in North Korea, where I once worked for 18 months as a medical worker for Cap Anamur, a German aid organization, I was never beaten by the police -- not even in my last days there as persona non grata, just before my expulsion for the expression of pro-human rights views.

Here, in South Korea, I have been beaten by the police -- among others.

[...]

The article continues. Check it out.
http://chosunjournal.com/2006/11/04/south-koreas-spoilers/
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's more from the first article link:

...During our balloon-launching attempt on Aug. 22,2003 a young South Korean (well-fed, wanting for nothing) attacked me, threw me to the ground and escaped with a bundle of radios intended for his starving, destitute brothers across the border � an assault carried out right under the noses of the riot police. Then I was attacked by the police themselves. One officer jumped on my twisted knee while I was lying on the ground. But even that was not as painful as the incident in March this year when some riot policemen kicked me in the groin while I was standing in the middle of their crowd during a protest in front of the Chinese embassy here in Seoul.

On another Sunday, I was attacked by North Korean �journalists� at the World University Games in Daegu, while holding a peaceful press conference in front of the convention building there. The South Korean newspapers reported that I �exchanged punches with the North Koreans.� In reality, I was standing on my crutches, still suffering from my injuries from the balloon-launch assault, and could barely stay upright. I was also wearing a neck-brace, and so was unable even to swivel my head to face my North Korean attackers.

Afterwards, the same newspapers called me an �extreme ultra-right-wing activist,� even �fascist,� which is ironical, given that I am doing what I am doing for the North Koreans mainly to atone for the shameful fascist history of my home country, Germany. The local government in Daegu apologized to the North Korean delegation for my �grave offence,� and promised to punish me and get me expelled.

http://chosunjournal.com/2006/11/04/south-koreas-spoilers/

It's well known that there are a lot of North Korean/communist sympathizers and agents operating in South Korea - some with influencial positions at universities, unions, and political parties.

The current President - a former student radical himself - hasn't effectively stopped their radical political activities, I think, because he shares, at least in part, many of their socialist goals for a united Korea (and the end justifies the means...)
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Here, in South Korea, I have been beaten by the police -- among others.


I would be interested in hearing a third party account of these beatings. Not that I neccessarily doubt the guy, but in my experience, when someone of any political persuasion says "I was just handing out my pamphlets on the street corner and all of a sudden the cops started wailing on me", there's ofteb an omitted set of events between the "handing out my pamphlets" part and the "cops wailing on me" part.
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Typhoon



Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of people believe that DJ and Roh are connected to the South Korean communist party and affiliated with North Korea (possible agents). The meeting between DJ and lil Kim was kind of like a celebration for taking over the Blue House (hence his warm reception) and this last meeting between Roh and lil Kim was a repremanding for screwing up the sweet situation that DJ had created (hence the cold reception and clear loss of face that Kim tried to inflict on Roh). I think there are quite a few of Northern agents (families) placed in the South from the time of the Korean War and they have infiltrated into high places in society over the past 50 years. After DJ's term in office the South was very pro-North, but since Roh has totally blundered his way through the last 5 years the South is very anti-North. Anyways it was interesting to see Roh get totally ignored and looked down on by lil Kim.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The meeting between DJ and lil Kim was kind of like a celebration for taking over the Blue House


If the first summit was just about a couple of communist comrades getting together for a congratulatory toast, why did one of the communists have to put up a few billion won in bribes to make it happen?

And furthermore, what about the Hyundai corporation, who were up to their necks in the bribery scheme? Are they run by communists as well?
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GaryCooper



Joined: 10 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are photos of a beaten Norbert Vollertsen at the August 2003 balloon launching. Not sure where I found mine, but they are on the web. He is surrounded by Korean police.

There is a long-standing record since the Kim Dae Jung administration of police exercising elective justice with regard to North Korean human rights protests. In Korean law, it's actually illegal to burn flags of foreign countries, yet the widespread burning of the US flag was permitted by police in 2002. However, burn a North Korean flag -- considered exempt from the law since it's part of Korea -- and police will stop the burning, citing "fire hazard" or some other excuse like that.

The "South Korea's Spoilers" article first appeared in the Wall Street Journal, not on the web. I believe the article, even without seeing the pictures. It's right to exercise caution about believing everything one sees on the web, but this one passes the caution test with flying colors.
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Alyallen



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what happens when an outsider tries to tell South Korea anything. Right or wrong, you are an outsider and you must be wrong...
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alyallen wrote:

Quote:
That's what happens when an outsider tries to tell South Korea anything. Right or wrong, you are an outsider and you must be wrong...


Well, apparenlty Vollertsen's activities are not confined to Korea. In his own words:

Quote:
We organize protests at the Panmunjom border with North Korea, help North Korean refugees rush past guards and enter Western embassies in China


Now "rushing past guards" sounds to me like highly illegal activity. So it would seem that Vollertsen is quite comfortable with going to other peoples' countries and breaking their laws, in fulfillment of his humanitarian ends. And good for him if he really thinks that what he's doing is morally correct. However, if he shows an equally cavalier attitude toward Korean law, that MIGHT add some context to the treatment he has received from the police here.

Gary Cooper wrote:

Quote:
However, burn a North Korean flag -- considered exempt from the law since it's part of Korea -- and police will stop the burning, citing "fire hazard" or some other excuse like that.


So let me get this straight. Korea has a law against burning foreign flags, but North Korea's flag is not protected because it's considered Korean. So what you're saying is...

In South Korea, there is a law against burning foreign flags, but no law against burning Korean flags? I'm open to being proven wrong on this, but I find that a little hard to believe.

Quote:
The "South Korea's Spoilers" article first appeared in the Wall Street Journal, not on the web. I believe the article, even without seeing the pictures. It's right to exercise caution about believing everything one sees on the web, but this one passes the caution test with flying colors.


I'm not saying that the article was fabricated out of whole cloth. Just that I've found a bit of skeptical inquiry is usually in order when someone presents a narrative describing himself as a totally innocent victim set upon by the forces of the law.

And of course it works in the other direction as well. I wouldn't automatically take everything a cop says at face value either.
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Alyallen



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Alyallen wrote:

Quote:
That's what happens when an outsider tries to tell South Korea anything. Right or wrong, you are an outsider and you must be wrong...


Well, apparenlty Vollertsen's activities are not confined to Korea.


Well, that would be why I said South Korea.
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:36 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

I'm all for human rights in North Korea, but this guy seems to be a bit of a nutter.

To start with, if I were going to launch balloons into NK, I wouldn't do it with a bunch of police standing by watching me. Did he launch the ballons from Seoul? If so, how many made it out of the city, let alone to NK?

The police jumped on his twisted knee. Well, I'm not sure how one can see if someone has a twisted knee, so I find that a bit melodramatic.

If he's been allowed back in the country providing he doesn't engage in political activism, what's he doing attacking the SK government in the Wall Street Journal?

Finally, who isn't aware of the human rights abuses in NK? What he describes is not exactly what I'd call awareness-raising activities. It's more like he's helping people to defect from NK. A noble cause, indeed, but, as OTOH points out, of questionable legality.

When I went to Panmunjom, we weren't allowed to wear "provocative clothing" or make offensive gestures, so I'm not quite sure how one goes about holding a protest there. Of course, the legality of such an event is even more dubious.

On the whole, I find this guy extremely dodgy.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has Dr. Vollertson ever appeared on ARIYANG TV's 'HEART TO HEART'?

God i just love that show!
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alyallen wrote:
On the other hand wrote:
Alyallen wrote:

Quote:
That's what happens when an outsider tries to tell South Korea anything. Right or wrong, you are an outsider and you must be wrong...


Well, apparenlty Vollertsen's activities are not confined to Korea.


Well, that would be why I said South Korea.


Right. I was just using his activites in China as a segue into speculating about what sort of activities he might be involved in in SK.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if I were going to launch balloons into NK, I wouldn't do it with a bunch of police standing by watching me. Did he launch the ballons from Seoul? If so, how many made it out of the city, let alone to NK?


And one has to wonder how much repsonsibility he takes for the people who find those balloons. Suppose the radios land in a field somewhere, and are found by a 10-year-old boy on his way to school. The boy takes them to school, where the principal recognizes them as illegal devices and notifies the police. I think we can all figure out the rest of the story.
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Typhoon



Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
The meeting between DJ and lil Kim was kind of like a celebration for taking over the Blue House


If the first summit was just about a couple of communist comrades getting together for a congratulatory toast, why did one of the communists have to put up a few billion won in bribes to make it happen?

And furthermore, what about the Hyundai corporation, who were up to their necks in the bribery scheme? Are they run by communists as well?


What you call "bribes" some call a tribute to the Dear Leader. I don't claim to know who is a communist or a sympathizer to their cause. I do know that DJ and Roh both come from areas famous for having North Korean agents and sympathizers. Just because they are trying to help the North reunite Korea doesn't mean they agree with every communist principle. What would be the easiest way to assist in reunification? To become rich and influential, right? It would be better than being a farmer. Is the Hyundai CEO a communist or sympathizer? I have no idea, but I don't think so. Did the president of his country ask him to contribute in return for some gov't favors? Probably. I don't know if they are communists or not, but more and more people think they may be.
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jinju



Joined: 22 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
The meeting between DJ and lil Kim was kind of like a celebration for taking over the Blue House


If the first summit was just about a couple of communist comrades getting together for a congratulatory toast, why did one of the communists have to put up a few billion won in bribes to make it happen?

And furthermore, what about the Hyundai corporation, who were up to their necks in the bribery scheme? Are they run by communists as well?


Who says he had to? DJ most likely wanted to.
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