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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:41 am Post subject: ... |
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| Do you prefer to choose the amount of your tip? Or do you prefer a mandatory "service charge?" Those are your two options. |
I'd prefer restaurant owners to pay their staff a fair wage and raise the prices of their food instead of dicking me around with hidden charges.
Imagine if there was tipping in other industries. I'd tip a lot to make sure that the doctor didn't hock a loogey into my stomach cavity while he's removing my appendix. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:52 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Do you prefer to choose the amount of your tip? Or do you prefer a mandatory "service charge?" Those are your two options. |
I'd prefer restaurant owners to pay their staff a fair wage and raise the prices of their food instead of *beep* me around with hidden charges. |
Tips are not a hidden charge. They're not a new thing either. If you don't know how to factor them in to your dining costs then you're a bleeping idiot.
Listed mandatory "service charges" are not hidden either.
Since almost everyone expects to tip at a restaurant, raising the prices without identifying the increase as a gratuity will leave most people double tipping. You'll also be charged sales tax on an increase in food prices. Not so on a tip or "service charge." |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
You're either not reading what I wrote, or you're an idiot. When did the restaurants in Korea do away with tipping? (i.e. when did they ever have tipping and get rid of tipping?) It's not a tipping culture and it never has been. The system that exists in Korea is irrelevant. If you want restaurants in the US to do away with the voluntary tipping system, it will merely be replaced by a mandatory "service charge." I've already shown this to be the case.
I'm not debating the reasons for tipping. It's the system that exists. Very few people in America want to see it replaced. And yes, the only choice is to replace it with a mandatory service charge.
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okay. you're right. i think we're having two different arguments here. i'm arguing that the system sucks, and you're arguing that the sucky system is inevitable. i don't necessarily agree with that either, but i'll backtrack and read your links before i make any arguments about that. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| endofthewor1d wrote: |
okay. you're right. i think we're having two different arguments here. i'm arguing that the system sucks, and you're arguing that the sucky system is inevitable. i don't necessarily agree with that either, but i'll backtrack and read your links before i make any arguments about that. |
Correct, I'm no longer trying to argue the merits or reasons of tipping. That was just a dead horse being pulled in circles.
I am arguing that one, the only realistic alternative to tipping in America, at least in the here and now, is a mandatory "service charge." And two, voluntary tipping should be preferred to a mandatory "service charge." |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
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An Op-ed from the NYTs. This one arguing against the practice of tipping, but defending the "service charge."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/opinion/10shaw.html?pagewanted=all
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WHEN Thomas Keller, one of America's foremost chefs, announced that on Sept. 1 he would abolish the practice of tipping at Per Se, his luxury restaurant in New York City, and replace it with a European-style service charge, I knew three groups would be opposed: customers, servers and restaurateurs. These three constituencies are all committed tipping - as they quickly made clear on Web sites. To oppose tipping, it seems, is to be anticapitalist, and maybe even a little French.
But Mr. Keller is right to move away from tipping - and it's worth exploring why just about everyone else in the restaurant world is wrong to stick with the practice. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| There are a lot of circular arguments which actually don't address the problem of tipping but try to find excuses for it. Tipping is a bad system, it doesn't matter if it is a custom, a mandatory service charge would be applied (which is NOT certain) or something else is put in place. Those are theoretical (some don't seem to understand that, but I expect no less on this site) while tipping, which is currently in practice, is chaotic and inefficient as a means of salary. I've seen some of the arguments here and feel I have explained this enough for people who can see past their upbringing. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: |
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I HATE tipping!
This is one of the most irritating things about going back to British Columbia. In B.C., servers expect it and if you have $0.60 in change left over from your ordering a pint of beer - the waitress doesn't even bother returning your change! They don't even friggin ask for the 60 cents - they just keep it!
I hate it and can't stand the attitudes of the servers.
The attitude of entitlement disgusts me to no end.
I order a pint of beer.
It's simple:
Server picks up the pint glass. Sticks it under the tap. Pulls the lever to fill the beer mug. Sets beer mug back on bar counter for customer to take.
How the frig is that worth 50 cents?   |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| endofthewor1d wrote: |
okay. you're right. i think we're having two different arguments here. i'm arguing that the system sucks, and you're arguing that the sucky system is inevitable. i don't necessarily agree with that either, but i'll backtrack and read your links before i make any arguments about that. |
Correct, I'm no longer trying to argue the merits or reasons of tipping. That was just a dead horse being pulled in circles.
I am arguing that one, the only realistic alternative to tipping in America, at least in the here and now, is a mandatory "service charge." And two, voluntary tipping should be preferred to a mandatory "service charge." |
i don't know if i agree or disagree with either of those arguments. neither of them are anything i'm interested in. without a third option on the table, it's just another reason for me to be glad i moved away.
you're one of two people who have called me on my own mistakes on here today. i need to get back to arguing with stupid people again. where did ernie and beardigin run off to? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| endofthewor1d wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
I am arguing that one, the only realistic alternative to tipping in America, at least in the here and now, is a mandatory "service charge." And two, voluntary tipping should be preferred to a mandatory "service charge." |
i don't know if i agree or disagree with either of those arguments. neither of them are anything i'm interested in. without a third option on the table, it's just another reason for me to be glad i moved away. |
Call it a tip, a service charge, servis compris, whatever. The practice is widespread and accepted. I'm all for ending customs that the majority of people find archaic. But tipping isn't one of them. Whether you have tipping or some other choice, the end price of your meal is going to stay virtually the same. The laws of supply and demand dictate it.
| Quote: |
| you're one of two people who have called me on my own mistakes on here today. |
Being able to admit your mistakes ranks high in my book. Even if you do still disagree with me.  |
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whatever
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:37 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| I'd prefer restaurant owners to pay their staff a fair wage and raise the prices of their food instead of *beep* me around with hidden charges. |
Hidden charges, my ass. You know/knew what you're getting into. It's standard, period. Remind us to call you the waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhmbulance. 
This thread is about discussion the custom of tipping in the United States with Korean visitors. Or, have you forgotten?  |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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i think the mandatory service charge is a terrible replacement for tipping for a few reasons...
first, many (not all) restaurant owners are sleazy cheap ba$tards who would keep the "20% service charge" for themselves... how will this be governed? have "service charge inspectors"? who's going to pay for that?
second, i want my "service charge" to go directly to my server... why should they have to pool their tips and share it with the others? i realize that this happens in many restaurants... sharing the tips with the dish staff (who don't get a chance to make tips) makes sense to me but sharing tips with other servers defeats the purpose of tipping!
i like tipping because my money goes straight to that person, it's appreciated (because it's NOT mandatory), it encourages good service, and there's no overhead costs... |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ernie wrote: |
i think the mandatory service charge is a terrible replacement for tipping for a few reasons...
first, many (not all) restaurant owners are sleazy cheap ba$tards who would keep the "20% service charge" for themselves... how will this be governed? have "service charge inspectors"? who's going to pay for that?
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so the waiters and waitresses wouldn't know this was going on? they would continue to work for less than minimum wage while their bosses keep the service charge for themselves?
waiter: 'hey boss. my tables' totals came to $1500 tonight. i believe $300 worth of service charges should be coming my way.'
restaurant owner: 'shut up! just be happy you're making $3 an hour. now get back in the basement!'
i'm glad you're back in the thread, ernie. you make me feel smart. |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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how would the servers know the total sales of the restaurant that night?
seriously, dude, just because you don't like an argument doesn't mean you should resort to insults - it makes YOU look like an idiot, not the other way around... do you need a hug or something? |
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jessie-b
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| If you're too cheap to tip at a restaurant, stay home and cook and clear your own dirty dishes, wipe up your own spills, and refill your own water glass. A manditory service charge works in large hotels and for group parties, but to suggest that small eateries should adopt this method immediately would mean mass closings for privately owned establishments. Luckily there aren't TOO many miserly scrooges around like the ones on this board. If you don't tip at a restaurant, be sure your face will be remembered and you will not be welcome again. |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ernie wrote: |
how would the servers know the total sales of the restaurant that night?
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they don't need to know the total sales of the restaurant. they just need to have a rough idea of the total sales at their own tables. despite the lack of credit you give waitstaff, i'm sure most of them can perform simple addition.
if the amount of money they were making didn't come out to more than their $3.00 an hour wages, they wouldn't need a 'service charge inspector' to tell them that they're getting ripped off and that they should quit working there.
| ernie wrote: |
seriously, dude, just because you don't like an argument doesn't mean you should resort to insults - it makes YOU look like an idiot, not the other way around... do you need a hug or something? |
just because you can't make an argument doesn't mean you should resort to trying to pull one out of your ass. |
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