| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: at my wit's end
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period? |
 |
|
My coteacher was asking why we say "What do you have first period?" when asking about class schedules rather than "What is your first period?"
I tried to explain the best I could but was at a loss. I said that what we really mean is "What (class) do you have (during) first period?" I also told him the obvious difference in meaning--one being a time set aside for class, the other being a woman's "bleeding time."
I told him I'd get back to him with a better explanation but am still at a loss. Can any grammar buffs help me out? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
My coteacher was asking why we say "What do you have first period?" when asking about class schedules rather than "What is your first period?"
I tried to explain the best I could but was at a loss. I said that what we really mean is "What (class) do you have (during) first period?" I also told him the obvious difference in meaning--one being a time set aside for class, the other being a woman's "bleeding time."
I told him I'd get back to him with a better explanation but am still at a loss. Can any grammar buffs help me out? |
Here's the thing your coteacher needs to understand: it doesn't matter.
Why the hell do Koreans say "People many are here"?
Not everything can be explained away by grammar, especially in English. Why do we cut DOWN a tree and then chop it UP? Why does a house burn DOWN as it burns UP?
Just shrug, say, "I don't know, but that's what we say." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| Atavistic wrote: |
Why the hell do Koreans say "People many are here"?
|
Because Korean is not an SVO language; it's an SOV. They are using their L1 knowledge and constructing an interlanguage grammar to try and produce the L2, something which all language learners do when first learning a foreign/second language.
You have to remember that when learning a second language, language learners create a new language in the process, an interlanguage that is used as a medium between their L1 and L2. Some, such as yourself, think it's ridiculous because you are hearing a sentence that isn't structured using the syntax rules of the English language. On the contrary, it's quite remarkable how the mind can create stop-gaps i.e. the interlanguage grammar. It's important to remember that as the student progresses in learning a second language, the interlanguage is slowly replaced with the L2 language word order. This process is quite arduous, especially when the L2 has a different word order than the L1. This explains why languages with the same word order are learned more easily than languages with different word orders.
I'd recommend reading Second language acquisition by Gass and Selinker and An introduction to to language by Fromkin, Rodman, and Hyams. That way, you won't be so ignorant and make assinine comments such as, "why the hell....." as if it is a bad thing that these people are trying to learn a new language.  Here, I'll even provide you with the citations so that you may easily find the books.
Fromkin, V., Rodman, R., & Hyams, N. (2005). An Introduction to Language (Eighth ed.) Boston, MA: Michael Rosenberg.
Gass, S., & Selinker, L. (2001). Second Language Acquistion (2nd ed.) Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| cubanlord wrote: |
| Atavistic wrote: |
Why the hell do Koreans say "People many are here"?
|
Because Korean is not an SVO language; it's an SOV. They are using their L1 knowledge and constructing an interlanguage grammar to try and produce the L2, something which all language learners do when first learning a foreign/second language. |
I know that. I actually meant, WHY do they construct their language that way? IN KOREAN? Why DON'T we construct our language that way?
Point is still the same. Language just is. Sometimes you just need to learn it quit wondering WHY something is how it is.
So take your book suggestions and smoke it, you're reading waaaaay too much in my post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| both are ok. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jeffkim1972
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Location: Mokpo
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| Atavistic wrote: |
| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
My coteacher was asking why we say "What do you have first period?" when asking about class schedules rather than "What is your first period?"
I tried to explain the best I could but was at a loss. I said that what we really mean is "What (class) do you have (during) first period?" I also told him the obvious difference in meaning--one being a time set aside for class, the other being a woman's "bleeding time."
I told him I'd get back to him with a better explanation but am still at a loss. Can any grammar buffs help me out? |
Here's the thing your coteacher needs to understand: it doesn't matter.
|
100% true, doesn't really matter. But to reference the Korean language, they are used to only knowing one way to say something.
| Atavistic wrote: |
Why the hell do Koreans say "People many are here"?
Not everything can be explained away by grammar, especially in English. Why do we cut DOWN a tree and then chop it UP? Why does a house burn DOWN as it burns UP?
Just shrug, say, "I don't know, but that's what we say." |
You should at least say something relevant. Grammar is very mathematical.
sometimes
A+B=C or B+A=C
or
you sometimes can be described by subject, verb, object, or just adjective.
What [class] do you have first period?
What is your first period [class]?
Just explain,
Big cat.
The cat is big.
Korean is definitely a low level language, so there isnt much variation and that's what they reference.
Never say "that's just the way it is". If you constantly say that, then you should be making 1M won a month. You've got to say something to justify your big paychecks.
funny how Koreans will pay a person 50K won an hour and every explanation is, "well, it just is". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| Atavistic wrote: |
Why DON'T we construct our language that way?
So take your book suggestions and smoke it, you're reading waaaaay too much in my post. |
"WE" don't construct our language that way because we don't use SOV as word order BECAUSE our language evolved from a germanic language unlike Korean. Languages have evolved throughout history; it's part of evolution. Just look at the difference in English 100 years ago and now. Big...BIG difference.
You should also try reading David Crystal's books. He goes into detail about this very topic, that is, why we use English the way we do.
I'm not reading "waaaaaaay" too much into your post. I was simply responding intelligently rather than giving a defeated answer such as "well, that's just the way it is". You should try it some time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
My coteacher was asking why we say "What do you have first period?" when asking about class schedules rather than "What is your first period?"
I tried to explain the best I could but was at a loss. I said that what we really mean is "What (class) do you have (during) first period?" I also told him the obvious difference in meaning--one being a time set aside for class, the other being a woman's "bleeding time."
I told him I'd get back to him with a better explanation but am still at a loss. Can any grammar buffs help me out? |
This is my logic, so bear with me.
What is your first period? to me indicates the possession of something. Like What is your name? That is asking for something that you own...which is your name.
What do you have first period? to me is asking about something that occurs during a particular time, that time being first period. You don't own first period, it's something that happens especially given the fact that your co-teacher is talking about a scheduled event.
I bet that makes no sense but if I told explained it that way to my co-teacher he'd get it.
Hope that sort of kinda helped. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:01 am Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| jeffkim1972 wrote: |
Never say "that's just the way it is". If you constantly say that, then you should be making 1M won a month. You've got to say something to justify your big paychecks.
funny how Koreans will pay a person 50K won an hour and every explanation is, "well, it just is". |
OK, Mr. Kim, question that my coteacher asked me. Feel free to tell me how I should have answered it.
"Why do you say 'dressed to the nines' instead of 'dress the nines'" Or, "Why do you say 'head over heels' when you're in love? Your head is usually above your heels?"
What are you supposed to do when there IS NO explanation? "Say something" to justify my paycheck? I'm not Korean, I don't pull BS answers out of my ass to save face.
When I do get paid 50,000 won an hour, maybe I will become Korean and spread misinformation. 아싸! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: at my wit's end
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| Atavistic wrote: |
What are you supposed to do when there IS NO explanation? |
I say "It's an idiomatic expression." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: Re: What do you have 1st period? vs. What is your 1st period |
|
|
| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
| "It's an idiomatic expression." |
Yes, I don't think that Ata. realizes that the expressions he is posing in this thread are nothing more than a bunch of idiomatic expressions. I wasn't going to say anything as I said enough, but, I'm glad you pointed this out for him/her. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
htrain
Joined: 24 May 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
[/quote]Korean is definitely a low level language, so there isnt much variation and that's what they reference.
| Quote: |
yea right, they have like 23 ways to say "yellow." last i checked it is rated a cat 4 out of 5 as far as difficulty. the learning style is low level, just repitition and no outside the box thinking.
I can think of 8 ways you could ask "What do you have first period?" Tell them to start thinking about language with a more open mind. If you don't know "cup" ... say "the thing you drink from." The thing you pour milk into ... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not really a grammar answer, but it seems as if "What is your first period?" doesn't give enough information. What is your first period WHAT? Your first period class? Your first period of growth? Your first period of independance?
That said, we DO say "First period, I have math." I guess "class" is understood??? Hmmm....English is wonderful, isn't it???  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| "What's your first period?" is fine. No problems with it. I'd assume that class was inferred by context here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: at my wit's end
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| littlelisa wrote: |
| "What's your first period?" is fine. No problems with it. I'd assume that class was inferred by context here. |
Yeah, but do people really say that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
