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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: The Zapruder Film : Truth or Deception? |
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See for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-rcdBNFnGs
A viewer writes:
"Interesting, but you CAN see the car slow down in this version. I saw another film of another view of the assassination and the slowing was more noticeable but the angles were different. I also saw the sign (that obscured the first shot)in all the other photos and films and it doesn't appear out of place. Hmmm... " |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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"As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside
each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure
of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike.
Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they
moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures
faced; the wheels did not turn about [d] as the creatures went. Their
rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all
around. "
"When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and
when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose.
Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise
along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the
wheels. When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the
creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose
from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of
the living creatures was in the wheels. "
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekial |
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SuperFly

Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Location: In the doghouse
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Am I the only one that has noticed that the OP posts these types of threads every few weeks/months? I'd just like to know why he's so interested in discussing this topic over and over again...for years! Doesn't he realize that most of the people who post here are under the age of 30 and don't much care about JFK and his assasination/history?
I just wonder if he does this in his classroom. |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
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" And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death.
Hades followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill
with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the
earth was given to him. "
Rev. 6:8 |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: |
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SuperFly wrote: |
Doesn't he realize that most of the people who post
here are under the age of 30 and don't much care about JFK and his
assasination/history?
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The debate against the charge that Lee Oswald was on the sixth floor shooting at the President provides much "reasonable doubt," which itself argues against a legal conviction of the man for the crime that History alone says he committed.
Part of that debate includes:
Whether, how and when he got a rifle into the TSBD and up onto the sixth floor: the doubt arises from Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle's insitence that the package he'd brought to work wasn't as long as was necessary to enclose the rifle, even disassembled; Frazier's description of the package fitting completely under his arm, cupped in his hand at the bottom and not extending past his shoulder; Lee's apparent lack of access to the materials needed to construct the package (they were determined to have come from a recently-used roll of paper in the TSBD shipping department, which Troy Eugene West said he rarely if ever left), the lack of time necessary to construct it in situ (necessary since the tape machine wet the tape when pulling it out, and the need to use it right away), and the lack of any observation by Frazier of Oswald's brining it home with him on Thursday night (it was too bulky to conceal easily); and the failure of anyone to see Oswald either bringing it into the TSBD that morning (or any other), or seeing him retrieve the package from anywhere within or without the building and bringing it to the sixth floor; and, of course, the failure of the crime scene investigators to photograph it in place or at any other time within the TSBD building.
His whereabouts before, during and after the shooting: he was last admittedly seen on the sixth floor at about 11:50-11:55 as "the boys" working on the flooring broke early to wash up prior to the start of the parade, yelling to someone to "send the elevator back up" so he could presumably ride it back down; his own statement of eating lunch in the presence - but not necessarily the company - of two black guys, one who was short and the other who went by "Junior" (both of whom said they were there at the time in question, but did not admit to seeing Oswald ... but if he wasn't there, how would he know they were?); his being seen on the first floor by a female employee (I'm bad with names!) at 1:15 or possibly later (when, with the motorcade due to arrive in a matter of a few minutes, he should've been setting up his ambush); his ability - indeed the necessity - to get down four flights of stairs after the shooting within about 90 seconds in time to be confronted by Officer Baker while appearing "cool" and "calm" (which, as noted above, he would have no way of knowing would happen, whether or not he was a - or the - shooter); and his being seen shortly after that encounter by Geraldean Reid walking through the main office area on the second floor, coke (or Coca-Cola) in hand, again (or still) calm and collected; and his own purported statements to DPD Captain Fritz as to his whereabouts during these times.
His not being seen nor heard by anyone upstairs before or after the shooting: Bonnie Ray Williams, "Junior" Jarman and Hank "Shorty" Norman(!) claimed to have not heard any commotion on the floor above them other than the "clinking" of shells on the floor (but not the thump of racing footsteps); Bonnie Ray had himself been on the sixth floor as late as 12:15-12:20 and did not see him - or anyone else - despite the fact that Oswald would have had to have been there, very probably having to pass Williams' eating spot, to be in the "sniper's nest" in time for the motorcade's passing; and the failure of Jack Dougherty, another TSBD "order picker" to either see or hear Oswald either on the sixth floor or on the stiarway down from there, near which Dougherty was standing as Oswald purportedly made his dash downstairs; and the failure of any of these four men to have heard either the shooting itself (or adjudged its location) or either the rifle being tossed among the boxes upstairs, or the boxes being moved to allow the rifle to be hidden among them.
This list is by no means all-inclusive nor exhaustive, but is at least representative of the arguments against Lee Oswald having been shooting at the President. Where Oswald made statements that were backed up by others' testimony (e.g., being in the domino room during lunch, being on the first floor later, etc.), he was adjudged a "liar" without any explanation of how he'd have known some of those things without having been where he'd claimed.
Before proceeding further, what other items might be included in this immediate scenario (i.e., leaving aside nitrate testing, etc., that happened later) that are typically cited to cast doubt upon Oswald's role as a/the shooter? The floor is open for suggestions ....
(Note: I've amended the last paragraph simply to add to the list before moving on to "If not Oswald, then who?" part of the discussion. I'm sure that no matter how many I've put in, I'll have overlooked one or a dozen that people think are important. This list was just off the top of my head ....) |
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Draz

Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Location: Land of Morning Clam
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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regicide wrote: |
SuperFly wrote: |
Doesn't he realize that most of the people who post
here are under the age of 30 and don't much care about JFK and his
assasination/history?
|
The debate against the charge that Lee Oswald was on the sixth floor shooting at the President provides much "reasonable doubt," which itself argues against a legal conviction of the man for the crime that History alone says he committed.
Part of that debate includes:
Whether, how and when he got a rifle into the TSBD and up onto the sixth floor: the doubt arises from Buell Wesley Frazier and his sister Linnie Mae Randle's insitence that the package he'd brought to work wasn't as long as was necessary to enclose the rifle, even disassembled; Frazier's description of the package fitting completely under his arm, cupped in his hand at the bottom and not extending past his shoulder; Lee's apparent lack of access to the materials needed to construct the package (they were determined to have come from a recently-used roll of paper in the TSBD shipping department, which Troy Eugene West said he rarely if ever left), the lack of time necessary to construct it in situ (necessary since the tape machine wet the tape when pulling it out, and the need to use it right away), and the lack of any observation by Frazier of Oswald's brining it home with him on Thursday night (it was too bulky to conceal easily); and the failure of anyone to see Oswald either bringing it into the TSBD that morning (or any other), or seeing him retrieve the package from anywhere within or without the building and bringing it to the sixth floor; and, of course, the failure of the crime scene investigators to photograph it in place or at any other time within the TSBD building.
His whereabouts before, during and after the shooting: he was last admittedly seen on the sixth floor at about 11:50-11:55 as "the boys" working on the flooring broke early to wash up prior to the start of the parade, yelling to someone to "send the elevator back up" so he could presumably ride it back down; his own statement of eating lunch in the presence - but not necessarily the company - of two black guys, one who was short and the other who went by "Junior" (both of whom said they were there at the time in question, but did not admit to seeing Oswald ... but if he wasn't there, how would he know they were?); his being seen on the first floor by a female employee (I'm bad with names!) at 1:15 or possibly later (when, with the motorcade due to arrive in a matter of a few minutes, he should've been setting up his ambush); his ability - indeed the necessity - to get down four flights of stairs after the shooting within about 90 seconds in time to be confronted by Officer Baker while appearing "cool" and "calm" (which, as noted above, he would have no way of knowing would happen, whether or not he was a - or the - shooter); and his being seen shortly after that encounter by Geraldean Reid walking through the main office area on the second floor, coke (or Coca-Cola) in hand, again (or still) calm and collected; and his own purported statements to DPD Captain Fritz as to his whereabouts during these times.
His not being seen nor heard by anyone upstairs before or after the shooting: Bonnie Ray Williams, "Junior" Jarman and Hank "Shorty" Norman(!) claimed to have not heard any commotion on the floor above them other than the "clinking" of shells on the floor (but not the thump of racing footsteps); Bonnie Ray had himself been on the sixth floor as late as 12:15-12:20 and did not see him - or anyone else - despite the fact that Oswald would have had to have been there, very probably having to pass Williams' eating spot, to be in the "sniper's nest" in time for the motorcade's passing; and the failure of Jack Dougherty, another TSBD "order picker" to either see or hear Oswald either on the sixth floor or on the stiarway down from there, near which Dougherty was standing as Oswald purportedly made his dash downstairs; and the failure of any of these four men to have heard either the shooting itself (or adjudged its location) or either the rifle being tossed among the boxes upstairs, or the boxes being moved to allow the rifle to be hidden among them.
This list is by no means all-inclusive nor exhaustive, but is at least representative of the arguments against Lee Oswald having been shooting at the President. Where Oswald made statements that were backed up by others' testimony (e.g., being in the domino room during lunch, being on the first floor later, etc.), he was adjudged a "liar" without any explanation of how he'd have known some of those things without having been where he'd claimed.
Before proceeding further, what other items might be included in this immediate scenario (i.e., leaving aside nitrate testing, etc., that happened later) that are typically cited to cast doubt upon Oswald's role as a/the shooter? The floor is open for suggestions ....
(Note: I've amended the last paragraph simply to add to the list before moving on to "If not Oswald, then who?" part of the discussion. I'm sure that no matter how many I've put in, I'll have overlooked one or a dozen that people think are important. This list was just off the top of my head ....) |
We had to give speeches on assassinated world leaders in high school one time. The best speech by far was an incoherent mishmash of various Kennedy conspiracy theories.
He was kidding, though. |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Location: asdfghjk
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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the fact that the fatal shot hit the FRONT of JFK's head is all that is needed to prove a conspiracy, i.e. more than one shooter! |
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JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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ernie wrote: |
the fact that the fatal shot hit the FRONT of JFK's head is all that is needed to prove a conspiracy, i.e. more than one shooter! |
yikes.
Yes the OP does do this every couple of months. He's a conspiracy nut.
Let me see, oswald...
He owned the gun, he was placed at the scene, his palm print was on the gun, fibers from a shirt consistent with the one he wore that day was on the gun, he fled the scene and then shot a cop.
Sorry but you or I in that set of circumstances would go away for a very long time. Just because its JFK doesn't make it any different.
There were other shooters? Good. show me a murder weapon, suspects, evidence linking those suspects to the murder. There was a conspiracy? Who was involved, where is your evidence, give me your suspect, motive and the evidence for your claims.
thanks.
(mmm I'm envisaging a response. A it will be another random link or B "why should i provide evidence for my assertations? ) |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the evidence is strong against Oswald. But the question about the questions still remain.
We must also investigate the questions about the questions for:
Princess Dianna
Anna Nicole Smith
Marilyn Monroe
James Dean
Jim Morrison
Martin Luther King
Bobby Kennedy
Abraham Lincoln
Nicole Brown
Jesus
The Red Baron
John O'Neill
Cissy
edit: repaired typo
Last edited by cbclark4 on Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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You always get a response don't you JMO. You sure don't deserve one. You are a little weasel, the worst moron on the planet who believes anything he is told by official parties, while ignoring anything else.
All your evidence or the evidence the Warren Commission used was controlled by the party to the crime.
You ducked your question though JMO, where was the print immediately after the shooting as reported by the news station. A print is a print so doesn�t tell me they meant fingerprints and it was a palm print. If they would have had a "print" they would have said so.
They didn't and they accurately reported that there were none until the palm print was planted post mortem.
He may have bought that gun, there is sure is a paper that says so, but that could easily have been brought to the TSBD by someone else, you moron and he worked in that building although eyewitness testimony places him on ANOTHER floor and by virtue of that testimony makes it IMPOSSIBLE for him to do the shooting and get back to where he was found on the SECOND FLOOR. Pay attention to that you dumb ass rather than reading the WC like the bible.
Your fiber analysis evidence is crap.
He did not flee the scene. He hung around a while and drank a coke.
Finally there is contradictory eyewitness testimony about Tippit, who by the way was involved in the crime, not an innocent party.
But despite other witness stating there were two killers of Oswald, you believe the government because they have credibility.
And you are not even an American.
But thanks JMO because I am getting better at understanding what a bunch of crap the frame job on Oswald was. As I said , since there were shooters from the front:
IT DOES NOT MATTER IF OSWALD DID IT OR NOT!
From the Lone Nut biased Wikipedia ( if you re-write Wiki with conspiracy theories they will delete them, point is this is a conservative source)
Criticism of the case against Oswald
Further information: Kennedy assassination theories and Lee Harvey Oswald
Since the Warren Commission Report was published in 1964, some researchers have uncovered evidence and witness testimony that calls into question some of the Commission conclusions regarding Tippit�s murder. Some of this evidence indicates that Oswald may have had an accomplice in the killing, or that possibly Tippit was killed by an assailant other than Oswald.
The murder may have occurred earlier than the time of 1:15 p.m. given in the Warren Report. The timing is of critical importance, because Oswald arrived at his rooming house about 1:00 p.m.,[16] and the Commission�s own test [17] and estimation of Oswald�s walking speed[18] demonstrated that one route to the Tippit shooting scene took 17 minutes and 45 seconds to walk.[19] No witness ever surfaced who saw Oswald walk from his rooming house to the murder scene.[20] Additionally, although the Commission stated in its Report that Domingo Benavides called police from Tippit�s radio immediately after the killing, Benavides had testified that he did not approach the car "for a few minutes" after the shooting.[21] He was also assisted in using the radio by T.F. Bowley, who testified to Dallas police that he had arrived at the scene after the murder, and that the time was 1:10 p.m.[22] Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig has also stated that when he heard the news that Tippit had been shot he noted the time was 1:06 p.m. according to his watch.[23]
Only two Commission witnesses were identified as actually having seen the shooting, Helen Markham and Domingo Benavides. Joseph Ball, senior counsel to the Commission, has referred to Markham's testimony as "full of mistakes," and characterized her as "utterly unreliable."[24] Markham made numerous false statements before the Commission, such as claiming to have been alone with Tippit's body for twenty minutes after the killing.[25]
Benavides was not taken to a police lineup. He later testified that he had told police after the killing that he did not think he could identify the assailant,[26] but he did say that the killer resembled pictures he had seen of Oswald.
Additionally, certain witnesses who did not appear before the Commission identified an assailant who was not Oswald. Both Acquilla Clemons and Frank Wright witnessed the scene from their respective homes within one block of the murder. Clemons saw two men near Tippit�s car just before the shooting. After the shooting she ran outside and saw a man with a gun, whom she described as "kind of heavy." He waved to the second man, urging him to "go on."[27] Frank Wright also emerged from his home and observed the scene seconds after the shooting. He described a man standing by Tippit�s body who had on a long coat, and who immediately ran to a car and left the scene.[28]
There is also evidence to indicate that the cartridge shells recovered from the scene may not have been those subsequently entered into evidence. Two of the shells recovered at the scene were given to police officer J.M. Poe. Poe testified to the Commission that he believed that he had marked the shells with his initials, although he couldn�t "swear to it."[29] However, no initials were found on the shells later produced by the police.[30] Poe later told researchers that he was absolutely certain that he had marked the shells.[31]
William Alexander, the Dallas assistant district attorney who had recommended that Oswald be charged with the Kennedy and Tippit murders, has also been critical of the Commission's version of the murder, stating that its conclusions on Oswald's movements "did not add up," and that "Certainly, he may have had accomplices."[32] |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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cbclark4 wrote: |
Yes, the evidence is strong against Oswald. Bust the question about the questions still remain.
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IT DOESNT MATTER IF OSWALD FIRED THE SHOTS FROM THE TSDB , since we know there were shots from the front as indicated by 59 eyewitnesses , doctors at the Parkland Hospital and the Zapruder film.
Get past the Oswald thing.
It doesnt matter.
You know , this thing for me is more about confronting stupid people , people who can not think for themselves and who dont like other people thinking for themselves. I have met people like you and JMO in person and know exactly what you are like.
The world is indeed flat. |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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regicide wrote: |
cbclark4 wrote: |
Yes, the evidence is strong against Oswald. Bust the question about the questions still remain.
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IT DOESNT MATTER IF OSWALD FIRED THE SHOTS FROM THE TSDB , since we know there were shots from the front as indicated by 59 eyewitnesses , doctors at the Parkland Hospital and the Zapruder film.
Get past the Oswald thing.
It doesnt matter.
You know , this thing for me is more about confronting stupid people , people who can not think for themselves and who dont like other people thinking for themselves. I have met people like you and JMO in person and know exactly what you are like.
The world is indeed flat. |
So you agree that Oswald fired the shot(s) from the TSDB? |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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How could anyone forget that face.
"Although polls suggest most of the people in the United States agree
Oswald had some role in the assassination, 7 in 10 believe he was part of
a broader conspiracy and 7% believe he was not involved at all."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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The framing of Oswald was a decent one. I can understand why most people believe he was one of the shooters. They put together a nice package of bogus evidence against him.
He sure looked guilty at the theatre and seven percent seems about the right figure in light of the decent frame job done to him.
But to believe he was the ONLY shooter in light the mountain of evidence
from private parties and witnesses pointing to other shooters and a
massive cover up is simply incomprehensible.
Well I guess there are some people who believe OJ actually didnt kill his ex-wife and Ron Goldman because the jury said so.
I think some people, like JMO just like to argue ,even though they know
they are wrong. JMO is not American and he doesnt really care yet he is always lurking in the background ready to give us his McAdams and the Warren Report. OF course they are going to validate the official story.
Yet he disregards anything that contradicts the official story!
And there is a mountain of evidence developed by privates parties that does so.
Last edited by regicide on Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:03 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ramsey Clark saw no evidence of a front entry.
"In 1968 The Ramsey Clark Panel met in Washington, DC to
examine various photographs, X-ray films, documents, and other
evidence pertaining to the death of President Kennedy. It concluded that
President Kennedy was struck by two bullets fired from above and
behind him, one of which traversed the base of the neck on the
right side without striking bone and the other of which entered the skull
from behind and destroyed its right side."
Edit: I wanted to bold some stuff
Last edited by cbclark4 on Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:00 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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