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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Typhoon wrote: |
| Is the Hyundai CEO a communist or sympathizer? I have no idea, but I don't think so. Did the president of his country ask him to contribute in return for some gov't favors? Probably. I don't know if they are communists or not, but more and more people think they may be. |
Good move on his part. Somebody got the judge to let him off the hook for embezzlement years later. |
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GaryCooper
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Now "rushing past guards" sounds to me like highly illegal activity. So it would seem that Vollertsen is quite comfortable with going to other peoples' countries and breaking their laws, in fulfillment of his humanitarian ends. And good for him if he really thinks that what he's doing is morally correct. However, if he shows an equally cavalier attitude toward Korean law, that MIGHT add some context to the treatment he has received from the police here. |
They had actually gotten permission to do the balloons thing, but the police came and changed that at the last minute. It was a surprise attack, essentially.
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| So let me get this straight. Korea has a law against burning foreign flags, but North Korea's flag is not protected because it's considered Korean. So what you're saying is... In South Korea, there is a law against burning foreign flags, but no law against burning Korean flags? I'm open to being proven wrong on this, but I find that a little hard to believe. |
Yes, that's right. That's exactly the case. Don't remember where I got that information, but it was from some article somewhere.
You're right to be careful. To hear "He's a communist sympathizer" on this thread without much context raises my skeptical eyebrows. (I am inclined to believe that, but I am inept at making it seem plausible on this forum.) I appreciate your care. Keep up the good work. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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They had actually gotten permission to do the balloons thing, but the police came and changed that at the last minute. It was a surprise attack, essentially.
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Well, if I were in a foreign country, and the police asked me to desist from something, I would do as requested, irrespective of what I had been told earlier. If I thought I was being treated unfairly by the cops, I would pursue the matter through the proper channels afterwards.
So we can wonder if Vollertsen was complying with the police requests every step of the way. On that question...
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In Seoul, Rice conducted an unusual press conference with Korean Internet reporters. The event, meant to highlight the freewheeling nature of computer communication in an open democracy, got off to a bad start when American security guards tackled a peace activist as he shouted to get Rice's attention.
"Miss Rice, the North Korean people are dying and they are crying for your help," yelled the activist, German physician and former aid worker Norbert Vollertsen. He held up a poster that read "Freedom for North Korea: 50 Years Overdue," until a State Department employee ripped the poster in half.
As Rice took her seat for the news conference, security officers literally muffled Vollertsen while wrestling him to the carpeted floor. He had talked his way into the event before Rice arrived, but a U.S. Embassy public affairs officer recognized him at the last moment and demanded he be removed.
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So it would seem that Vollertsen has problems not only with Chinese guards and Korean police, but with American embassy staff as well. Why do you suppose it was that the embassy official wanted him removed upon recognition?
Like I say, I'm not presuming to have absolute knowledge about his run-ins with the Korean police. But something about his general history makes me want to hear a few more details before agreeing that he is just the innocent victim of Korean police brutality.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150954,00.html |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
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| The meeting between DJ and lil Kim was kind of like a celebration for taking over the Blue House |
If the first summit was just about a couple of communist comrades getting together for a congratulatory toast, why did one of the communists have to put up a few billion won in bribes to make it happen?
And furthermore, what about the Hyundai corporation, who were up to their necks in the bribery scheme? Are they run by communists as well? |
Who says he had to? DJ most likely wanted to. |
Well, this is the first I've heard about DJ making the payments not in exchange for the summit, but simply because he wanted to give KJI a lot of money. Even the GNP and the Chosun Ilbo were portraying it as a "cash-for-summit" scandal. Guess they were missing out on the real story. |
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Typhoon
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Who really knows why they gave the money. Is DJ going to come out and give his honest reasons for doing this???  Why was DJ in jail for 15 years? Because he was a rally point for the communist party. There are strong libel/slander laws in this country. If a newspaper is going to insinuate that the president is a communist or has communist ties it better have videos/proof that are irrefutable. I am just saying that a lot of people think that DJ and Roh are part of or have strong ties to North Korean agents. I am not sure if I agree with this, but there enough people who think it is possiblity to at least consider it. I am not Korean and I only know what I have read or heard people talk about. I have heard enough people to talk about the North connections of DJ and Roh to consider that it is a possibilty. Way to keep an open mind.
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| Well, this is the first I've heard about DJ making the payments not in exchange for the summit, but simply because he wanted to give KJI a lot of money. Even the GNP and the Chosun Ilbo were portraying it as a "cash-for-summit" scandal. Guess they were missing out on the real story. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The meeting between DJ and lil Kim was kind of like a celebration for taking over the Blue House |
If the first summit was just about a couple of communist comrades getting together for a congratulatory toast, why did one of the communists have to put up a few billion won in bribes to make it happen?
And furthermore, what about the Hyundai corporation, who were up to their necks in the bribery scheme? Are they run by communists as well? |
Who says he had to? DJ most likely wanted to. |
Well, this is the first I've heard about DJ making the payments not in exchange for the summit, but simply because he wanted to give KJI a lot of money. Even the GNP and the Chosun Ilbo were portraying it as a "cash-for-summit" scandal. Guess they were missing out on the real story. |
Its easy. DJ kills two birds with one stone. He gets to have a summit and he gets to give his hero some cash for personal use. Seems like a win win to me. Its not like DJ didnt give Kim a shitload more over his term. He almost gave him keys to the country, god knows he tried to destroy any defensive ability and security this country has. Roh nearly finished the job for him. Heres a question: does DJ giving Kim truckloads of cash for the summit somehow look out of the ordinary when seen in context of his presidency? |
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mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't Roh pushing for the FTA with the US/EU make it implausible that he's a communist?
I don't know about DJ. The idea that he's a communist in disguise strikes me as absurd but I suppose anything's possible. If he's not a communist, then he is dangerously naive.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2880716
"Former South Korean President Kim Dae-jung Tuesday urged the United States and other nations to accept all of North Korea�s conditions for denuclearization, saying he is convinced Pyongyang will give up its nuclear ambitions if its needs are met.
�Members of the six-party talks should do all that North Korea wants,� Kim said at the National Press Club in downtown Washington, �and if North Korea still refuses to give up its nuclear development, then we should impose sanctions.� |
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GaryCooper
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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I like ontheotherhand. He/she plays fair.
Vollertsen takes risks of getting arrested, but that's in the nature of a protester. Like I said, he was given permission, and then the police simply assaulted him. He does follow the Gandhi/MLK Jr. playbook well. South Korean immigration has even played games with his visa status just to keep him out of the country. He's right, I think, to urge Dr. Rice to make a stronger case for North Korean human rights, even though the Bush administration, to its credit, has been in the forefront of denouncing NK's human rights abuses.
I've met Dr. Vollertsen. I was at a huge demonstration on March 1, 2003, where he, among others, spoke about the North. I've seen him on TV interviews. There are good articles about him. He's respected by thousands if not millions of people for his bravery. He risked his life to photograph Holocaust-like conditions in the North and smuggled the video and pictures out of the North. I've been aware of this guy for about seven years now. |
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