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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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 Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| "always expensive" is relative to what people earn. Expensive to you and I, certainly, but to a chap on 100,000 GBP per year it's peanuts and London has millions of such individuals. |
London does not have 'millions' of people earning 100,000 pounds per year. |
Silly me, I meant USD. I made the same claim earlier in the thread. 80,000 millionaires work in the City of London alone, which is 1 sq mile.
| Quote: |
| Anyway, we were talking about average salaries, and in London, for most Londoners, a night out is a rather large expense, particularly when you add in the cost of getting a taxi (at least 25 pounds). For the average Londoner, London is still a very expensive place, when compared to other European cities. |
We need to know what 'average' in Seoul is like - compare average in London vs average in Seoul - for this to be significant. How many times more expensive are average property prices than average salaries (in London it's about 7 or 8 - dunno about Seoul)? How much are other goods and services compared to average income in both cities? To the average Seouler, how much cheaper, if at all, is a typical night out compared to that in London relative to average income? We need to find these things out.
| indiercj wrote: |
| Is it possible to have a complete meal delivered at your door for under 6000W in London? How about having the entire 100 square meter apartment unit papered anew for 700,000W? I am just curious. |
This enquiry is devoid of any significance. What ever answer one gives, it has to be viewed from the perspective of earnings. Your question implies that 6000w delivery is cheap, but you have an average or above average income I suspect. Your question is no different from a wealthy Londoner saying "does your city have food delivery for 15 pounds? Can a taxi go 2 miles for 10 pounds in your city?" Many Koreans earn a lot below you, so 6000 may seem 30-40% more for them. If I tell you that a can of coke in Ethiopia is 10 cents, you'd think "wow - cheap!", but if I told you per capita GDP in Ethiopia is $180 per year, suddenly it's not so cheap from the perspective of an earner in Ethiopia. Earnings in Seoul are lower than in London, so your "it's only 6000 for meal delivery" is meaningless without context.
Anyway, no idea about the wallpaper, but of course London, a major capital, has meal delivery services and, yes, I suspect one must pay more for delivery than 6,000W (that would very cheap by London standards because people earn more). But again, if it's 4 or 5 times more expensive, this sounds expensive but is insignificant without considering London's average earnings. If for deliveries one must spend twice or thrice as much in London - yet average earnings in London are 4 or 5 times that of Seoul - it is Seoul that is more expensive with respect to meal delivery from the perspective of a Seoul average income-earner. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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You have conceded the point.
It's an aceepted fact that Londoners make more than Seoulites, but 3-4 times more? No way.
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "always expensive" is relative to what people earn. Expensive to you and I, certainly, but to a chap on 100,000 GBP per year it's peanuts and London has millions of such individuals. |
London does not have 'millions' of people earning 100,000 pounds per year. |
Silly me, I meant USD. I made the same claim earlier in the thread. 80,000 millionaires work in the City of London alone, which is 1 sq mile.
| Quote: |
| Anyway, we were talking about average salaries, and in London, for most Londoners, a night out is a rather large expense, particularly when you add in the cost of getting a taxi (at least 25 pounds). For the average Londoner, London is still a very expensive place, when compared to other European cities. |
We need to know what 'average' in Seoul is like - compare average in London vs average in Seoul - for this to be significant. How many times more expensive are average property prices than average salaries (in London it's about 7 or 8 - dunno about Seoul)? How much are other goods and services compared to average income in both cities? To the average Seouler, how much cheaper, if at all, is a typical night out compared to that in London relative to average income? We need to find these things out.
| indiercj wrote: |
| Is it possible to have a complete meal delivered at your door for under 6000W in London? How about having the entire 100 square meter apartment unit papered anew for 700,000W? I am just curious. |
This enquiry is devoid of any significance. What ever answer one gives, it has to be viewed from the perspective of earnings. Your question implies that 6000w delivery is cheap, but you have an average or above average income I suspect. Your question is no different from a wealthy Londoner saying "does your city have food delivery for 15 pounds? Can a taxi go 2 miles for 10 pounds in your city?" Many Koreans earn a lot below you, so 6000 may seem 30-40% more for them. If I tell you that a can of coke in Ethiopia is 10 cents, you'd think "wow - cheap!", but if I told you per capita GDP in Ethiopia is $180 per year, suddenly it's not so cheap from the perspective of an earner in Ethiopia. Earnings in Seoul are lower than in London, so your "it's only 6000 for meal delivery" is meaningless without context.
Anyway, no idea about the wallpaper, but of course London, a major capital, has meal delivery services and, yes, I suspect one must pay more for delivery than 6,000W (that would very cheap by London standards because people earn more). But again, if it's 4 or 5 times more expensive, this sounds expensive but is insignificant without considering London's average earnings. If for deliveries one must spend twice or thrice as much in London - yet average earnings in London are 4 or 5 times that of Seoul - it is Seoul that is more expensive with respect to meal delivery from the perspective of a Seoul average income-earner. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
| You have conceded the point. |
Conceded what point and why?
| Quote: |
| It's an aceepted fact that Londoners make more than Seoulites, but 3-4 times more? No way. |
Some source other than your say so would be great.  |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If for deliveries one must spend twice or thrice as much in London - yet average earnings in London are 4 or 5 times that of Seoul - it is Seoul that is more expensive with respect to meal delivery from the perspective of a Seoul average income-earner. |
So far, nobody has been able to produce any information on average salaries in Seoul, which are likely to be considerably higher than the Korean average. You have already stated that average salaries in London are around the 60,000 dollar mark. Well, if average Korean salaries are around 20,000 dollars, and if we assume that Seoul salaries are at least a bit higher, then clearly people in London do not earn 4 to 5 times more than people in Seoul, although they may well be paying 4 to 5 times more for transport, rent and eating out. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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For just 433 pounds a month (800,000 won) you can rent a lovely.....parking space, in central London!
http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?order_by=price+desc&price_to=175&location_ids=290&search_form=map&per_page=10&search_type=LL¤t_page=2&submit_type=search
You can also rent a GARAGE, in the lovely West Kensington area for just a snip at 520 pounds per month!!
Renting a one room, or studio flat in London, is likely to cost you well over $2,000, and even then you will probably be living somewhere not particularly nice like Hackney or Walthamstow. For somewhere close to central London, in a nice area, forget about it. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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So your way of arguing is telling me the onus of proof is on me?
The stats we have seem contrary to what you are stating. About the average income of a British vs Korean person.
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
| You have conceded the point. |
Conceded what point and why?
| Quote: |
| It's an aceepted fact that Londoners make more than Seoulites, but 3-4 times more? No way. |
Some source other than your say so would be great. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
So your way of arguing is telling me the onus of proof is on me?
The (A) stats we have seem contrary to (B) what you are stating. About the average income of a British vs Korean person. |
See my letters.
(A) What stats? I'm not being funny with you buddy - I'm asking you what stats you are referring to. We don't have many stats - that's the problem.
(B) Show me what it is - with a quote (so we avoid strawmen) - what it is you believe I'm stating.
| Bigverne wrote: |
| So far, nobody has been able to produce any information on average salaries in Seoul, which are likely to be considerably higher than the Korean average |
We need to know precisely how much Seoul differs from the rest of Korea. As I said earlier, Korea's per capita GDP generally is 46% of that in the UK generally. London is considerably wealthier and more expensive than the rest of the country too - so it's crucial if we're to see whether Seoul is an expensive city or not by (a) London standards, which is certainly richer but we don't know how much by, (b) by the standards of Seoul's own average income.
[quote="Bigverne"]
| Quote: |
| You have already stated that average salaries in London are around the 60,000 dollar mark |
No. Recall claims correctly. I said, based on this recent article, that people in the south (which includes London but does not concern it specifically) earn approx $60,000 on average. No idea what the average in London is and we need to find out. No luck so far.
I also said "the average London salary, five years ago (so it's more now), was just under $70,000" (+).
| Bigverne wrote: |
| Well, if average Korean salaries are around 20,000 dollars, and if we assume that Seoul salaries are at least a bit higher, then clearly people in London do not earn 4 to 5 times more than people in Seoul, although they may well be paying 4 to 5 times more for transport, rent and eating out. |
You and Ilsanman are getting the "4 or 5 times" thing from this: "if it's 4 or 5 times more expensive, this sounds expensive but is insignificant without considering London's average earnings. If for deliveries one must spend twice or thrice as much in London - yet average earnings in London are 4 or 5 times that of Seoul - it is Seoul that is more expensive with respect to meal delivery from the perspective of a Seoul average income-earner."
That's speculation to make a point about the pointlessness of saying "X costs this much" in London or Seoul without taking into account, let alone mentioning, the average income in those places. It is not a claim that average income in London is 4/5 times that in Seoul - although for many I suspect that is true, but the average? I doubt it. We don't know, do we?
| Bigverne wrote: |
For just 433 pounds a month (800,000 won) you can rent a lovely.....parking space, in central London!
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