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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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blaseblasphemener wrote: |
mindmetoo, watch the video I posted if you want to know some of the failings of the commission. I watched the video, I didn't take notes on it. |
So you can't even summarize three points? I thought you found the video very compelling? Again, I might watch the video and decide what you think is a failing is what I think as the government doing an accurate job. I'm not in the business of watching a very long video to try and divine your thoughts. If you can't articulate your thoughts with some specifics, then that reflects poorly on you. You do not strike me then as a person with the basic skills to really understand the issue you've formed an opinion on.
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you know the arguments, it's just a question of interpretation. I choose to believe that on the one instance the continental united states is attacked, everybody in the most sophisticated intelligence and military machine in the history of mankind missing the ball just didn't happen. |
Or when a major hurricane hits a major oil producing state in the USA, there's not some perfect flawless plan. Oh well.
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We are in the throws of a police state, and the normal rules do not apply. |
Now who let that happen? Voters? Yeah, people can always be expected to use tragedy to grab power. Every time there's some shooting, the scientologists send in councilors.
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I think this is the greatest hoax perpetrated ever on the American public, and the truth will come out, of that I am certain. |
But you can't articulate what evidence would convince you you are wrong? Odd I can. You want a "proper" investigation but I would argue any investigation that still found for the null hypothesis you would label as crap.
It's a bit like the face on mars people. NASA and the ESA can image Cydonia with ever increasing sophistication but the people wedded to their belief it's alien made will still posit conspiracy.
In scientific debate there are frequently two sides to every argument. Each side marshals its evidence, they debate within the pages of scientific journals and conferences. Eventually both sides agree to a definitive test. "We both agree this evidence will decide." The experiments are run and all sides live with the results.
I find 9/11 troobies unable to even articulate the evidence they require to support the non-government complicity theory.
Last edited by mindmetoo on Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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For the sake of brevity, I didn't post the entire article, but since you insist:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0708/S00326.htm
*Statement of Kristen Breitweiser, Co-Chairperson, September 11 Advocates Concerning the Joint 9/11 Inquiry Senate Select Committee on Intelligence House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence September 18, 2002 * [snip] Perhaps even more disturbing is the information regarding Khalid al-Midhar and Nawaf Alhazmi, two of the hijackers. in late August, the CIA asked the INS to put these two men on a watchlist because of their ties to the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole. On August 23, 2001, the INS informed the CIA that both men had already slipped into the country. Immediately thereafter, the CIA asked the FBI to find al-Midhar and Alhazmi. Not a seemingly hard task in light of the fact that one of them was listed in the San Diego phone book, the other took out a bank account in his own name, and finally, an FBI informant happened to be their roommate. [snip]*
Later after three more years of connecting dots, Kristen Breitweiser wrote in Huffington Post, August 20, 2005 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kristen-breitweiser/enabling-danger- part -one_b_5951.html *
[snip] Additionally, when one carefully reads the 9/11 chronology and information provided in the public record, it becomes increasingly clear that the CIA�s repeated failure to share information with the FBI about two of the 9/11 hijackers-al Mihdhar and al Hazmi-- was purposeful. There exists at least seven instances between January 2000 and September 11th, 2001, that the CIA withheld vital information from the FBI about these two hijackers who were inside this country training for the attacks. Once, twice, maybe even three times could be considered merely careless oversights. But at least seven documented times? To me, that suggests something else. (To read about these instances, I suggest you read 9/11 materials relating to the "watchlisting issue" involving al Mihdhar and al Hazmi which is a story so detailed, that it deserves its own lengthy blog.) [snip]
*From an interview with Newsweek Investigative Reporter Michael Isikoff for the documentary, 9/11: Press for Truth http://www.911pressfortruth.com :*
MICHAEL ISIKOFF: The CIA learned about this meeting. It arranged for it to be under surveillance by the Malaysian special branch... The CIA subsequently learned within days that... Almihdhar and Alhazmi were headed for the United States. ...An FBI detailee who knew about this at the Counter Terrorism Center of the CIA drafted a cable to alert the FBI, and that cable was quashed by superiors at the CIA. |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Your inept assertions combined with your irrational assumptions along
with your incoherent conjecture add up to a completely unfounded porism.
It can only be classified as a study in guessology.
Last edited by cbclark4 on Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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And what is this evidence of? Reads to me like the two agencies guard turfs. Wasn't that a finding?
Last edited by mindmetoo on Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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mindmetoo wrote: |
blaseblasphemener wrote: |
mindmetoo, watch the video I posted if you want to know some of the failings of the commission. I watched the video, I didn't take notes on it. |
So you can't even summarize three points? I thought you found the video very compelling? Again, I might watch the video and decide what you think is a failing is what I think as the government doing an accurate job. I'm not in the business of watching a very long video to try and divine your thoughts. If you can't articulate your thoughts with some specifics, then that reflects poorly on you. You do not strike me then as a person with the basic skills to really understand the issue you've formed an opinion on.
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you know the arguments, it's just a question of interpretation. I choose to believe that on the one instance the continental united states is attacked, everybody in the most sophisticated intelligence and military machine in the history of mankind missing the ball just didn't happen. |
Or when a major hurricane hits a major oil producing state in the USA, there's not some perfect flawless plan. Oh well.
Quote: |
We are in the throws of a police state, and the normal rules do not apply. |
Now who let that happen? Voters? Yeah, people can always be expected to use tragedy to grab power. Every time there's some shooting, the scientologists send in councilors.
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I think this is the greatest hoax perpetrated ever on the American public, and the truth will come out, of that I am certain. |
But you can't articulate what evidence would convince you you are wrong? Odd I can. You want a "proper" investigation but I would argue any investigation that still found for the null hypothesis you would label as crap. |
comparing 9/11 to katrina is ridiculous. completely different in almost every regard. this is obvious. comparing it to Virginia Tech is also ridiculous.
I think you know better than to believe your last point.
the shortcomings of the commission are on the record, and you know them. I don't feel like going back and finding them again. It's enough to know they exist, without having to cite them by memory. I know you don't think the commission to an adequate job, you're too smart to believe that.
voters never allowed america to become a police state. congress did a month after 9/11.
I'm sorry I don't strike you as a person with the basic skills to form an opinion on this. I'm just not into memorizing hundreds of pages of documents and videos, when the truth is staring me right in the face. Read "Blink" to have a better idea of what I mean. You don't have to have all the information to make an informed decision. And sometimes a lack of something is just as credible as what is in front of you. |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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mindmetoo wrote: |
And what is this evidence of? |
Some more Ezekialism. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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blaseblasphemener wrote: |
comparing 9/11 to katrina is ridiculous. completely different in almost every regard. this is obvious. comparing it to Virginia Tech is also ridiculous. |
Why is it ridiculous? The Katrina example is an example of Bush being asleep at the switch and the inefficienies of various levels of government and inability to work together in the face of a looming, undeniable disaster. Virginia Tech is used as an example of how political groups use a random tragedy to advance their agenda. So defend your claim.
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I think you know better than to believe your last point. |
No idea what you're saying here.
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the shortcomings of the commission are on the record, and you know them. I don't feel like going back and finding them again. |
Again, odd you can't quickly list the top 3. You seem to claim you're all over this topic like white on rice. There are many topics I'm keen to debate about. For example, evolution. Ask me the top three whatever in evolution and I sure hope I'd have a ready summary plus links for further understanding.
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voters never allowed america to become a police state. congress did a month after 9/11. |
They voted for them. They have the power of recall. While many tossed out congress men in the last election, I don't think the issue was "police state" but the mishandling of the war in Iraq, the economy, and Katrina.
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I'm sorry I don't strike you as a person with the basic skills to form an opinion on this. |
Rather easy to prove me wrong.
I'm just not into memorizing hundreds of pages of documents and videos, when the truth is staring me right in the face.
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Read "Blink" to have a better idea of what I mean. |
Yes. Read it. And his previous book The Tipping Point. You're talking "thin slicing" but again, I believe Blink also showed when thin slicing can be wrong.
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Y]ou don't have to have all the information to make an informed decision. And sometimes a lack of something is just as credible as what is in front of you. |
Sometimes. That's the key word there. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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mindmetoo wrote: |
And what is this evidence of? Reads to me like the two agencies guard turfs. Wasn't that a finding? |
It would seem to me that certain CIA officials have some explaining to do. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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some waygug-in wrote: |
mindmetoo wrote: |
And what is this evidence of? Reads to me like the two agencies guard turfs. Wasn't that a finding? |
It would seem to me that certain CIA officials have some explaining to do. |
So it's not exactly evidence of anything. And if the CIA explained it in such a way as it didn't confirm your hypothesis, would you accept the explanation? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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It is evidence that a full and complete investigation has NOT been done and it would seem that the 911 commission did not do their job.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kristen-breitweiser/enabling-danger-part-one_b_5951.html
The 9/11 Commission
At a bare minimum, the 9/11 Commission is not being honest with the American people. First, the Commission feigned total ignorance about Able Danger. Then, they admitted that they remembered hearing something about it. Next, they acknowledged that they were briefed about the program but found a discrepancy in the dates provided by the Able Danger informant, and therefore decided that the information was irrelevant to their investigation. Convenient excuses. But, wrong. Because, I happen to be one of the 9/11 widows that received personal commitments from each of the 9/11 Commissioners that they would track down every lead, and turn over every rock so as to provide the most thorough and definitive account of the 9/11 attacks to the American people. Last week�s revelations about Able Danger prove that the Commission has not been above-board with their investigation. Nor has their investigation been anywhere near exhaustive.
Now, legally speaking, the 9/11 Commissioners were mandated to provide a full accounting of the 9/11 attacks to the American people. If the Able Danger operation and its accompanying information turn out to be true, then necessarily each Commissioner has broken the law in that they failed to fulfill their legislative mandate in providing a full and just accounting of the 9/11 attacks to the American people. However, if we also come to learn that Atta�s or any of the other hijackers names were mentioned in the Able Danger chart, I think this nation will have bigger problems to deal with than accusing the 9/11 Commission of not following their mandate in providing a full accounting to the American people. As with most things in life, only time will tell. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, if they did break the law, they need not worry. Bush will pardon them. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Two years after the Nixon Administration's "Track II" covert operation/conspiracy failed to block Chilean President Salvador Allende's inauguration, the American Senate investigated the matter and produced witnesses, including DCI Richard M. Helms, who explained exactly what the President had said and how exactly the relevant government agencies had implemented his instructions.
We have Helms's hand-written notes of his Oval-Office meeting. We have Helms and his senior staff's memoranda on how they met after this meeting and discussed exactly how they might best execute the President's orders. We knew pretty much everything by 1975.
I can say the same thing for any American-sponsored covert operation I have ever studied. (Cannot say the same for any other government, unfortunately.)
In any case, the 9/11 people have nothing approximating this. We only know, again and again, that they mistrust "the official story." Yet far more people from the government have openly and not-so-openly clashed with W. Bush than ever did with Nixon: start with Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez and work your way backward through dozens of people. Include George Tenet and Colin Powell. Include people like President Jimmy Carter and others, not to mention the now-Democratic-Congress, who actively look to expose and discredit the W. Bush Administration.
Are you telling me that all of these people have been duped and/or are in on it? If so, how do you know?
In fact, at the end of the day, you have no evidence at all to support anything you wildly allege. You have nothing. Not even imagination. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I am alleging nothing of the kind, only that further investigation is warranted. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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some waygug-in wrote: |
At a bare minimum, the 9/11 Commission is not being honest with the American people. First, the Commission feigned total ignorance about Able Danger. Then, they admitted that they remembered hearing something about it. Next, they acknowledged that they were briefed about the program but found a discrepancy in the dates provided by the Able Danger informant, and therefore decided that the information was irrelevant to their investigation. Convenient excuses. |
And I wonder if the Tower Commission gave us everything too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair#Tower_Commission
So, your claim seems to be evidence the government was trying to covers its ass as to being asleep at the switch. Of course it could be evidence the government knew something was up but let it happen so it could invade Iraq. Or it could be evidence the government was working directly with these men. Or it could be evidence the intelligence community needs to hide information about ongoing operations.
Not any closer are we? |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Osama bin Laden: "I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States." - Click here for more info related to Osama bin Laden
On the morning of September 11th, 2001, Dick Cheney was running several war games in the north eastern portion of the United States. These drills included many hijacking scenarios, where commercial jets were hijacked and flown into buildings. At the same time Cheney had arranged for a drill involving a bio attack on NY. This resulted in FEMA setting up a command post on pier 29 in New York on September 10th.
Some of these drill were scheduled for later in the year but Dick Cheney rescheduled them and made sure that they all took place on the same day. This was unprecedented.
The war games involved live fly exercises, and electronic drills where fake blips were placed on radar screens. Cheney was in charge of a communications system that superseded those of the FAA, NORAD and NEADS. Some of the drills possibly included remote control planes.
From from September 2000 to June 2001, 67 planes steered off course. All 67 times our air defense systems worked as they should, and interceptors were launched. You may remember this happening when Payne Stewart and his crew died in flight. On September 11th, 2001, when Dick Cheney was running his war games, 4 jet airliners were supposedly hijacked, and all our systems that have worked flawlessly 67 times that year, failed. Coincidence?
While these facts seem to incriminate Cheney, all you can do within reason is ask these questions:
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Was Cheney in a position to have the defense systems stand down?
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Did Cheney, a member of PNAC, a group who expressed the fact that their agenda would be better accepted if we had a �new Pearl Harbor�, have a motive? Did he benefit from the events?
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Could the events have been an accident? Could the drills have gone bad?
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Why did the 9/11 Commission Report omit the information about the drills, making only 1 mention of them in a single footnote. The report only mentioned 1 drill, and falsely described it as a drill to defend against Russian Bombers. In the age of ICBMs, are we to believe that we have to practice defending the nation against Russian bombers in the north eastern portion of the US?
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Why have the news media neglected to inform the public of Cheney�s actions that day?
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Why did Bush and Cheney insist on being questioned by the commission together, without being taped, without taking an oath and with no records kept?
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If you did not know this information, you have to ask yourself why it is not common knowledge? You also have to ask what else don�t you know?
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In the years following the event, have you ever heard from the people who you were told committed these acts? Or, have you only been told why this happened by the people who want you to believe their story.
Use your common sense. Do you think the global intelligence powers failed this badly? Do you think men who could barely pilot a 2 seat plane can navigate across several states and find their target? Are you that gullible? Have some self respect, and think before you believe what you are told. |
http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_facts.html |
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