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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Let's remember to make a distinction between "entertaining" and "engaging" (even when our coteachers don't always notice the difference).
Every teacher's lesson should be engaging; they don't need to be entertaining. If a Korean teacher's class isn't entertaining, the world continues to turn. But they CAN, now and again, create engaging lessons, and that's what is needed. I think if you made engaging lesson plans, they wouldn't ask you to be "entertaining" (*unless you happen to be as dry as a matrini.
To the OP, if you think you are hired "to teach" and that "creating materials" is completely irrelevant, you need a nogginoscopic procedure. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
| To the OP, if you think you are hired "to teach" and that "creating materials" is completely irrelevant, you need a nogginoscopic procedure. |
It's only irrelevant if the materials already exist for whatever lesson you are curently teaching. Why re-invent the wheel. Why bother making materials if they are never going to be used again by anyone else, just placed on the shelf and forgotten. I make materials when necessary and have plenty saved oin file for when I need them, but if someone else made something I can use, I use it. Why make it again if it's already sitting there? |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Message for Jade who resigned....... |
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| Fishead soup wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| Jizzo T. Clown wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
Why is English the only subject taught in Korean school that are expected to be exciting. And why is it always up to the FT to be exciting? I don't see KTs jumping around like monkeys in their classes of rote memorization. Neither do I see the math teachers, history teachers, etc do the same.
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Exactly what I told my coteachers. I asked if their classes were exciting and funny. When they said no I asked them why they expected my class to be any different. After all, they are the "trained" teachers. Then I asked them if they wanted a teacher or a monkey. Now they're happy if I attempt to use any humor at all. |
Damn straight. This *beep* makes our jobs harder since the kids expect to be entertained, not educated. The first kid to say something is "Not fun" or ""재미없어" in my class gets in some serious trouble with me and my co-teacher. You must be vastly entertaining, educate and keep order while no one respects you or the effort you put into your job...Right... 
Oh and I should mention that it's funny considering that a lot of my coworkers yell, scream, shiek and holler at their kids all day long and somehow they are "teachers" and I'm not? |
My students have given up shouting game at the beggining of class thinking I'll drop everything and play another silly round of Jeopardy. |
I threw a kid out of my class this morning for fussing and pouting like a little whiny 5 year old because a song that I picked to teach the present progressive was "재미없어." He ultimately was kicked out because he continued on that vein for several minutes after being warned by co-teacher and myself. I kicked him out and basically berated him outside because he would NEVER had shown that level of disrespect with his class teacher.
So, I told my co-teacher how upset I was about that kind of nonsense and it turns out "shockingly" enough that his parents let him do whatever he wants and he pulls that sort of crap in a variety of situations and settings. My co-teacher told me that one time he happened to be at the movies and placed next to that student and his parents. The parents gave my co-teacher some popcorn and nachos and the student completely went unhinged. He started yelling and carrying on IN THE MOVIE THEATER over popcorn and nachos. The mom later told my co-teacher that she was worried that the student couldn't have normal social interactions. YA THINK 
Thanks, worthless parents. You have made my life so much easier |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
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| the kids expect to be entertained, not educated. |
These two things are not necessarily contradictory.
A well-executed lesson can be fun, and people learn more easily when humor and physical activity lower the affective barriers - yeah, balance is required, but ideally, when done the right way, people can laugh and smile and also focus on the learning task.
Me, I get a little depressed when i hear people talk about just showing and getting a paycheck - people like that are missing opportunities of their ow, as well. |
Yup. The goal in creating lesson plans to teach kids should be to make it useful and fun...they're kids after all. Adults respond well to fun too 
...and as a teacher you can have a great time in class!
Everybody wins. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| If the kids aren't interested, they aren't going to learn. If you're a teacher, keeping the kids involved is your job. |
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halfmanhalfbiscuit
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:31 am Post subject: |
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I think if you were to ask a Korean teacher why "your" classes have to be entertaining,they'd probably say because they're not real classes in that they don't relate to the school curriculum(and perhaps even by extention,that one isn't a real teacher)
There's too large a disparity between normal school classes where students are pushed and prodded to take responsibility for their learning,with the information in front of them,and our classes.
Why should it be that we have to distract them into learning through constant games and activities?
Korean English classes aren't about English,per se,they're about getting certain test scores.English classes with the native speaker aren't integrated into school curriculums and so have zero test value.It's just time-off,or face time with whitey quite often.
It's very difficult to give a sense of progress to students when the quality of their participation/performance/production/ isn't quantified-and if it is,it's invariably undermined by the Korean teachers |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Message for Jade who resigned....... |
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Fishead soup :
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Ally Allen :
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| You must be vastly entertaining, educate and keep order while no one respects you or the effort you put into your job...Right... |
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My students have given up shouting game at the beggining of class thinking I'll drop everything and play another silly round of Jeopardy. |
Ally, I think the part you said that I highlighted is pretty much the situation for almost every teacher who ever existed since the time of Socrates, at least the ones who give damn and think the job is important enough to the world to put up with the low pay and lack of status given to even the best among us.
Someone made the distinction between entertaining the students and engaging them, and I think that's an important idea.
Here's a question, and the answer I'll give you might surprise. What is the number one priority of all the tasks and goals a teacher has placed in his or her lap?
Answer : To keep the student willing to and perhaps even eager to go into the class every day. It goes especially for adults, by the way, because no one forces them to go, but kids also sometimes find other places they'd rather be than in a classroom.
The reason is very simple : I might be totally motivated in my role as an educator, in complete command of the material, and prep every day up the wazoo, and be totally cracker jack in my classroom management skills - even if I got all that stuff down pat, know what? Don't mean squat if the student isn't there in the room to see me do it and be part of it.
Jizzo, sorry for the confusion from a typo of one missing letter - all I was trying to say is that it's more rewarding (and fun) to try to be best teacher you can, rather than just, you know, show up and do the monkey dance ... hope that helps. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Message for Jade who resigned....... |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
Why is English the only subject taught in Korean school that are expected to be exciting. And why is it always up to the FT to be exciting? I don't see KTs jumping around like monkeys in their classes of rote memorization. Neither do I see the math teachers, history teachers, etc do the same.
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That's a damn good point. I've talked to students before about their classes in school, and they don't do any kind of hands-on activities with math in elementary, and in middle school they simply watch their teacher do experiments without ever actually doing any for themselves. They don't make dioramas for social studies and history, they don't act out plays for lit and history, and they don't do creative writing for Korean. Sure, education should be compelling, but why are only FTs of English told this? I don't get it. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| halfmanhalfbiscuit wrote: |
I think if you were to ask a Korean teacher why "your" classes have to be entertaining,they'd probably say because they're not real classes in that they don't relate to the school curriculum(and perhaps even by extention,that one isn't a real teacher)
There's too large a disparity between normal school classes where students are pushed and prodded to take responsibility for their learning,with the information in front of them,and our classes.
Why should it be that we have to distract them into learning through constant games and activities?
Korean English classes aren't about English,per se,they're about getting certain test scores.English classes with the native speaker aren't integrated into school curriculums and so have zero test value.It's just time-off,or face time with whitey quite often.
It's very difficult to give a sense of progress to students when the quality of their participation/performance/production/ isn't quantified-and if it is,it's invariably undermined by the Korean teachers |
The problem lies in the fact that there are two curriculums. One based on the test score one based on communication. This system does not work. It never will. It doesn't matter what you do. You can flavor it up with lots of fun games and fancy P.P.T. and it really doesn't matter. Once the students realize they are not held accountable for what they do in your class. Your class will be viewed as a non class by both students and teachers. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Message for Jade who resigned....... |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
Fishead soup :
| Quote: |
Ally Allen :
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| You must be vastly entertaining, educate and keep order while no one respects you or the effort you put into your job...Right... |
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My students have given up shouting game at the beggining of class thinking I'll drop everything and play another silly round of Jeopardy. |
Ally, I think the part you said that I highlighted is pretty much the situation for almost every teacher who ever existed since the time of Socrates, at least the ones who give damn and think the job is important enough to the world to put up with the low pay and lack of status given to even the best among us.
Someone made the distinction between entertaining the students and engaging them, and I think that's an important idea.
Here's a question, and the answer I'll give you might surprise. What is the number one priority of all the tasks and goals a teacher has placed in his or her lap?
Answer : To keep the student willing to and perhaps even eager to go into the class every day. It goes especially for adults, by the way, because no one forces them to go, but kids also sometimes find other places they'd rather be than in a classroom.
The reason is very simple : I might be totally motivated in my role as an educator, in complete command of the material, and prep every day up the wazoo, and be totally cracker jack in my classroom management skills - even if I got all that stuff down pat, know what? Don't mean squat if the student isn't there in the room to see me do it and be part of it.
Jizzo, sorry for the confusion from a typo of one missing letter - all I was trying to say is that it's more rewarding (and fun) to try to be best teacher you can, rather than just, you know, show up and do the monkey dance ... hope that helps. |
I know but there is a big difference but going in and doing your job to the best of your ability and having some teacher who doesn't even speak English tell you to teach more songs because it's "fun" or show videos because "it's fun" or set yourself on fire because it's "fun." Are my classes engaging? Yup. Do my students learn? Yup? Do I need some moron who can only say finessangyuanduhyu how to do my job?
I'll quote Young FRANKenstein because he summarizes my problem quite concisely
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| Why is English the only subject taught in Korean school that are expected to be exciting. And why is it always up to the FT to be exciting? I don't see KTs jumping around like monkeys in their classes of rote memorization. Neither do I see the math teachers, history teachers, etc do the same. |
Ultimately, I think there is a difference between being engaging and being entertaining..at least when it comes to English education in Korea. Being engaging makes you a teacher, being simply entertaining makes you into a joke. I think it's a slippery slope in Korea. Go too far and you become nothing more than a "Language Monkey" and who in the hell wants that? |
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