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Ron Paul in documentary about the Fed/loss of Gold Standard
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blaseblasphemener

Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

blaseblasphemener wrote:

ya-ta, you are all talk and no game. do you think the current system is working? for who? do you think americans are better off now than they were 30 years ago? why/why/why not? And, how will America look in 20 years if the current fiscal policies are allowed to continue? Bold ideas are necessary, not tired dogma from a 60s re-tread.

Yes, Americans are better off now. 30 years ago it was the odd middle classed family that had two cars. Today you got 3 or 4 car families. Few homes had two phones. Unemployment was approaching double digit and a 4% unemployment rate was considered full employment. Now if it pokes north of 5% Americans worry. And lets not even talk about inflation. While oil is expensive, it was more expensive in the '70s. Food used to represent a large portion of the American household budget. Today it's considerably smaller. The last two recessions have been milder and shorter than any in history. Pollution and crime at are historical lows. Cancer death rates keep falling.

So, if you believe Americans are worse off today, how would you define "worse"?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21309318/

ernie

Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject:

here's a fairly informative article written by none other than Mr. Alan Greenspan: http://www.gold-eagle.com/greenspan011098.html one of the problems with returning to a gold standard would be the initial price fluctuations of gold itself... what if there was a system implemented whereby if the price of gold changed with respect to other commodities, the ratio of dollars:gold would change as well... once the value of gold stabilized, then the dollar could be pegged to it... is this too simplistic? too complicated?

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject:

blaseblasphemener wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21309318/

Quote:

Shopping malls are packed every weekend. Restaurants can't open fast enough. Everyone seems to be wearing designer shoes, jackets and jeans and sipping $4 lattes. Credit card commercials constantly advocate splurging and, it seems, U.S. consumers are all too ready to comply.

That pretty much answers it. Our parents didn't spend their money in restaurants and sit in cafes and buy big screen TV and then another big screen TV and a car for their kids' use. That we can do that (and that it's a temptation for people to over spend) sure seems to me an indication we have the good life now.

And further look at that chart. First how do you compare a home today with a home from the 1970s? Homes today have dishwashers, side by side fridges, jacuzzi tubs, air conditioning. Gosh, they're more expensive. Health care? Well, we didn't have MRI scans in the 70s to catch cancer earlier. We have to pay more for better health to live longer? Gasp! Parents are sending their kids to preschool today because? And a second car? Oh no!

blaseblasphemener

Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject:

mindmetoo wrote:

blaseblasphemener wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21309318/

Quote:

Like I said, the house of cards will be falling down soon.

Actually, it already is, slowly.

Why do you think Buffet has been moving his money out of America? I'll take his view over yours. As he said, America is like a big farm that is so big you can't see to the end of it, but that is slowly selling off or losing pieces of it. It's hard to notice because the homestead is so big.

blaseblasphemener

Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject:

I got this email from Ron Paul's campaign today. I'm on the mailing list thanks to my $50 donation. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that a Canadian like myself is helping to spread a message that has apparently caused his holiness Alan Greenspan to be shocked on TV.

Quote:

he other day, my old sparring partner in so many Congressional committee hearings, Alan Greenspan, was on the Fox Business Channel. After Alan promoted his new book, the reporter asked if we really needed a central bank. Greenspan looked stunned, and then said that was a good question; he actually talked about fiat money vs. a gold standard. Now, the ex-Fed chairman is not about to endorse our sound monetary policy, but you know our Revolution is working when such a question is asked in the mainstream media, and this powerful man gives such an answer.

You and I are reopening a whole host of questions that the establishment thought it had closed off forever: on war, on taxes and spending, on inflation and gold, and on the rule of law and our Constitution.

A few years ago, I asked a famous conservative columnist a question. What did he think about the prospects for a restored Robert Taft wing of the Republican party? He thought I was joking. As you know, I was not.

After all the aggressive wars, the assaults on our privacy and civil liberties, the oppressive taxation, and the crazed spending and deficits, I believe that many Republican voters are ready to return to our roots. And the big boys feel it too. It is no coincidence that the Republican National Committee invited me to a fundraising dinner involving only "top-tier candidates."

Some of the opposition claims that I am not a "real Republican," whereas I am the only one in the race. And our campaign is registering new Republican voters by the boatload. None of my opponents is doing anything approaching that.

Of course, they pooh-pooh our success. "He's just registering Democrats and Independents and people who have never voted before." Well, yes. It's called growth. We are laying the groundwork for the primaries.

All over America, our support is wide and deep and growing, and young people are joining like never before. After the Dearborn debate, I went to the University of Michigan for a rally. 2,000 students turned out, something that has happened to no other candidate this year.

The crowd cheered all our ideas, but especially our opposition to the Federal Reserve, and our support for real money of gold and silver, as the Constitution mandates, instead of prosperity-wrecking fiat money. American politics hasn't seen anything like this in many decades. It is truly revolutionary.

But time is getting short. We must do massive radio and TV advertising, open many small offices (three in just South Carolina the other day), staff them, pay all the bills, and turn out our vote with massive organizational and phone-bank efforts.

As you know, the blackout is ending; our campaign is starting to get mainstream media attention, thanks to growing donations and volunteers. And contributions are the key to more attention, and to our being able to do the actual work of victory. Good news: our recent green-eyeshade analysis of all the candidates' net finances, which got so much press attention, shows our campaign as one of only three in the top-tier.

But we must keep moving up, and the Iowa caucuses are now on January 3rd. The New Hampshire primary may be in early December!

As always, everything depends on you. Please, make the most generous donation you can https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate/ as soon as you can. I need your help so badly.

The other day, an 8-year-old boy handed me a small white envelope. It contained the $4.00 he had saved from his allowance, as a donation to our campaign. I can't tell you how seriously I take my responsibility to work hard, and spend frugally and effectively, to be worthy of his support, and yours.

Please help me keep working, even harder and more effectively, for all we believe in. Without you, I'd have to pack it in. Donate now https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate/ . We have more than an election to win. We have a country to save.

Ron Paul

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject:

Quote:

We have more than an election to win. We have a country to save.

Oh good. A candidate with a messiah complex. Just what we need.

blaseblasphemener

Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

We have more than an election to win. We have a country to save.

Oh good. A candidate with a messiah complex. Just what we need.

I thought you were from the 60s, a time when people believed that the country needed to be saved from itself.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject:

blaseblasphemener

Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

aren't you an ex-hippie?

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:05 am Post subject:

Who said anything about ex?

blaseblasphemener

Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:10 am Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Who said anything about ex?

I didn't think a hippie would buy into an official story from a corrupt govt so whole-heartedly.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:56 am Post subject:

ernie wrote:

here's a fairly informative article written by none other than Mr. Alan Greenspan:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/greenspan011098.html

one of the problems with returning to a gold standard would be the initial price fluctuations of gold itself... what if there was a system implemented whereby if the price of gold changed with respect to other commodities, the ratio of dollars:gold would change as well... once the value of gold stabilized, then the dollar could be pegged to it... is this too simplistic? too complicated?

From the same article:

Quote:

Those who advocate a return to a GOLD STANDARD should be aware that returning our monetary system to gold convertibility is no mere technical, financial restructuring. It is a basic change in our economic processes. However, considering where the policies of the last 50 years have eventually led us, perhaps there are lessons to be learned from our more distant GOLD STANDARD past.

Meaning fiscal responsibility. Which is a good idea.

Interesting article. What does Greenspan think now? According to Ron Paul, this:

Quote:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul236.html

Quote:

[Greenspan] claimed he was wrong about his predictions of calamity for the fiat U.S. dollar, that the Federal Reserve does a good job of essentially mimicking a gold standard, and that inflation is well under control.

huffdaddy

Joined: 25 Nov 2005

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:02 am Post subject:

ernie wrote:

the problem with the federal reserve bank is that it is NOT controlled by the government, i.e. they are not elected, so they don't have any responsibility to anyone except their shareholders! the british federal reserve system was one of the main reasons for US secession from britain, and the US federal reserve has been accused by many as the cause of the great depression...

Why should our monetary policy be set by elected officials? Do you really want Bush to have the keys to the mint?

Quote:

a gold standard isn't perfect because, as you say, people can manipulate the value of gold... however, the value of gold is much more difficult to manipulate than the value of something completely imaginary, i.e. a currency not backed by anything! i think the world currency (whatever that may be in the future) needs to be backed by some commodity: silver, gold, or whatever... ANYthing is better than NOTHING!!!

Currently, free floating foreign exchange markets are very, very difficult to manipulate. Even for governments with billions of dollars at their disposal Commodity markets can be pushed around by a few millionaire traders.

What's the intrinsic value of gold? Very little. It served as a good universal measure of wealth for a long time, but that time has passed.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:12 am Post subject:

Quote:

I didn't think

This is your entire problem, in three words.

blaseblasphemener

Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:56 am Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

I didn't think

This is your entire problem, in three words.

oh come now, you still haven't responded to my question about your choice in the '08 election. Afraid to tip your cards? To say you're a Hilary supporter?

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