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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: Polish immigrant to Canada killed in airport by taser |
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Still think it's a legitimate first resort for police when they need to restrain someone?
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071017/taser_airport_071017/20071017?hub=TopStories
(And this time it's in Canada so "You're just anti-American" doesn't apply)
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Man who died in airport likely asking for help: mom
Updated Wed. Oct. 17 2007 10:51 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
A Polish man who died after being Tasered at a Vancouver airport was likely frustrated no one could understand his pleas for help, his grieving mother said Wednesday.
"He was speaking Polish, asking for help. But they don't understand," Zosia Cisowski told CTV British Columbia.
"If they don't understand, why didn't they take him to immigration so they could help him?"
Robert Dziekanski, 40, of Pieszyce, Poland, had flown to B.C. to start a new life as a Canadian.
But after arriving, he was unable to make his way to the public meeting area. Cisowski said she waited for 10 hours while her son was delayed at customs, but couldn't find anyone to help her.
"Please help me. My son has come," she remembered telling officials. "My son can't speak English. He could be lost. They say, no, someone will take care of him."
Police said that at some point Dziekanski went out of control, throwing chairs, pounding glass walls and refusing to calm down.
A witness who used her cellphone camera to film Dziekanski described him as shaking, sweating and "shouting back" at police. Sima Ashrafinia said that Dziekanski also smelled of alcohol.
Airport security called in the RCMP, who eventually used Tasers to subdue him. Moments after officers restrained him, Dziekanski lost consciousness and died.
Cisowski, who worked two jobs for seven years to save enough money for her son's immigration, said she believes the RCMP overreacted.
She wishes the RCMP had found an interpreter to calm him down, rather than Tasering him.
"He loved me so much, I loved him so much," she said. "He always listened to me. I gave him good advice."
A prominent Vancouver criminal lawyer has offered her services to Cisowski, and a possible civil suit could be launched against the RCMP and Citizenship and Immigration.
On Tuesday, assistant-deputy chief coroner Jeff Dolan said there was no trauma, disease or any other obvious cause of death.
He said toxicology or microscopic examination may determine why Dziekanski died.
Dziekanski had been travelling and waiting at airports for at least 24 hours. Early Saturday, he took a five-hour bus ride from Poland to Frankfurt. He would have arrived two hours ahead of his plane from Frankfurt to Vancouver, which is typically an 11-hour flight. But it was late arriving to Vancouver, adding another two hours to the trip.
The flight finally arrived at the Vancouver International Airport at about 3:30 on Saturday afternoon. And as a new immigrant, it took a long time to process Dziekanski.
His mother gave up waiting and returned home to Kamloops at 10 p.m. on Saturday night, unaware of what was happening inside the airport.
Canada Border Services won't say how long her son was in Customs and Immigrations, and it's unknown how long he may have been wandering around the airport. |
Last edited by mithridates on Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Customs and Immigration have very big egos.
They really belive they have no responsibility to anyone (I know, because my aunt works forthem and hes led me "behind the scenes". Those guys told me - "Shoot, we can reject anyone for any reason, and if they give lip, we'll hold them for awhile, THEN ship them out... on their own dime!") |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Yup I agree, he worst customs experience ever: Vancouver International, and I'm a Canadian for Chissakes! They are rude, tw@atish people who despite the fact that they are unionized, payed handsomely, hardley worked seem to have a major chip on their shoulder.
Canada Customs can kiss my A$$, one more reason not to go back. |
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Gunther
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Location: opposingdigits.com
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| I think the cops of today are brainwashed sissies... it took 3 of them to arrest him after being tazered... unless the poor guy was hulk hogan, why use a tazer in the first place... just run him down for his own safety, ruff him up a little so he can at least give his side of the story... G-zus!!! don't kill the guy!!! |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Mith, I don't think anyone favors tasering as a first resort here. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a cattle prod fer chrissake. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Sick. Sad. Disappointing. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Mith, I don't think anyone favors tasering as a first resort here. |
I don't know, some people seem pretty close to that. Or at least a quick second resort. I'd have to take a second look at that other Taser thread to see how extreme it got.
Interesting though that all the law and order types have vanished in a case like this. If he hadn't died it would have been ten pages by now of 'yeah but he was resisting arrest by moving so he got all the Taser he deserved, good job'. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Customs and Immigration have very big egos. |
Second that. Dealing with them in the States is unpleasant for me and much, much more so for my girlfriend. She and people she knows have told me some appalling stories. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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So you people are basically saying that it's okay for someone to throw a fit and get violent at immigration? As long as he's an immigrant who doesn't speak English.
Who knows, maybe this guy had a heart condition from all the overwork, and if the police physically restrained him, he could have died from that too.
People pass a lot of judgment without knowing anything. |
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Gunther
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Location: opposingdigits.com
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
So you people are basically saying that it's okay for someone to throw a fit and get violent at immigration? As long as he's an immigrant who doesn't speak English.
Who knows, maybe this guy had a heart condition from all the overwork, and if the police physically restrained him, he could have died from that too.
People pass a lot of judgment without knowing anything. |
Maybe you know something that we don't, enlighten us, because this story is pretty simple!!!
Wow... who would have thought of that... I guess we all need a little tazering now and then ha?
Ah... today the police tazered someone and he accidentally died... what a fool he must have been, $1000 prize goes to the police for keeping us safe, they are very brave people you know... and they have good hearts, and mommy always says... bla bla bla |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Mith, I don't think anyone favors tasering as a first resort here. |
I don't know, some people seem pretty close to that. Or at least a quick second resort. I'd have to take a second look at that other Taser thread to see how extreme it got.
Interesting though that all the law and order types have vanished in a case like this. If he hadn't died it would have been ten pages by now of 'yeah but he was resisting arrest by moving so he got all the Taser he deserved, good job'. |
You posted this one day later after your OP and claim that "all the law and order types have vanished in a case like this?" How about giving us a little time to respond hmm?
What, do you think that we are all waiting to jump into any taser thread we see and blindly take the side of the taser users WITHOUT reading the facts of the case first?
Anyway here's my take on this case.
If you go berserk and start throwing chairs and refusing to calm down you can expect a physical response. Nor has it been proven that the taser caused his death. For all we know he could have swallowed his tongue or something after he lost consciousness and died from that.
He could have very easily injured someone with a thrown chair or something else...and then you'd be on here complaining about the cops NOT doing their job.
He started acting violently and got tased. There are lots of immigrants who come here with little or no English and this kind of stuff doesn't happen to them.
No he didn't deserve to die...but if you pose a risk to others then it is the police's job to restrain you.
And just FYI no one advocated tasering as a first resort which is what you claimed in your OP. Nor did the cops use it as a first resort here or in the other case. They tried to calm him down first. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: ... |
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Yes. This kind of boils down to the point:
I support police having tazers to make them safer. In other words, for their own protection.
On the other hand, billy clubs have done the job for a good century. Conversely, per the '68 Chicago convention, one could see how they were misused.
Fundamentally, I think it would be Ok for the police to tazer a suspect they would otherwise need tro hit with a nightstick in order to subdue. Whether or notthat is the law, it should be.
At least one genius on this board, sneering at civil liberties, apparently thinks this is justified.
He, and those who think the same, are asses. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Like the person below you pointed out, you seem to have not fully read the article. It said the Polish man got violent, started throwing chairs and other shit. Also, he smelled of booze. He needed to be subdued.
Sorry we dumb Canadians are so violent. Next time we'll kick the shit out of him with a nightstick. Much better.
| Gunther wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
So you people are basically saying that it's okay for someone to throw a fit and get violent at immigration? As long as he's an immigrant who doesn't speak English.
Who knows, maybe this guy had a heart condition from all the overwork, and if the police physically restrained him, he could have died from that too.
People pass a lot of judgment without knowing anything. |
Maybe you know something that we don't, enlighten us, because this story is pretty simple!!!
Wow... who would have thought of that... I guess we all need a little tazering now and then ha?
Ah... today the police tazered someone and he accidentally died... what a fool he must have been, $1000 prize goes to the police for keeping us safe, they are very brave people you know... and they have good hearts, and mommy always says... bla bla bla |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Mith, I don't think anyone favors tasering as a first resort here. |
Seconded. Mithridates creates and sets up a nonexistent position and then knocks it down. Not only regards this assertion, but his title as well as other gems in the OP.
Why have "the law-and-order types" vanished, Mithridates? Have you considered that some of us sensed your aggressive, defiant stance and decided to take a pass on this one?
And the posters here who think customs officers are "arrogant" only manifest an old tendency on this board: you think any authority is "arrogant"; you represent the prototype antiEstablishmentarian after all. Indeed, you probably even find mailmen, garbagemen, and dogcatchers arrogant.
Tasers force compliance on noncompliant suspects. If you do not want the taser, then comply with the authorities' instructions. Complain later.
And this...
| Quote: |
Dziekanski went out of control, throwing chairs, pounding glass walls and refusing to calm down.
A witness who used her cellphone camera to film Dziekanski described him as shaking, sweating and "shouting back" at police. Sima Ashrafinia said that Dziekanski also smelled of alcohol. |
...sounds like a justified tasering to me. |
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