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Rapacious Mr. Batstove
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: Central Areola
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 Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiliz wrote: |
Seems to me after listening and reading the news, that there is a element of Maori people who are trying real hard to turn this into a race issue, and perhaps start that uprising they were planning and collecting rifles, molotov *beep* and napalm for.
I mean, if they weren't planning on using this stuff why have them? and why are so many Maori's running to their defence and playing the race card? Its only a race isuue because Maoris are making it one, as far as I can see, the police were alerted to a bunck of people who had weapons and were training, and were planning on using them at some stage..and they went in, using appropriate safety methods, and arrested them, and collected those weapons.
In this issue that is what is forgotten, those weapons were there to be used..not to look pretty. |
Well said. I agree, here's today's news:
Apparently a raid on a group of thugs building weapons and training to use them is an attack on all Maori now.
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"He taonga te mokopuna (our children are treasures). We are not terrorists, we have been terrorised." |
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=252&objectid=10470859
New Zealand Herald
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Hundreds protest against terror raids
2:04PM Friday October 19, 2007
A series of protests against this week's anti-terror raids have taken place across the country.
As many as a thousand people joined a march in Whakatane to complain about children being caught up in the police operation.
In another protest, around 50 people gathered outside the District Court in Auckland to voice their opposition to the police raids and demand those arrested are released on bail.
In Wellington, there were 150 outside court to protest as bail hearings were held.
The peaceful Whakatane hikoi began behind the main street before marching through the ground floor of the Whakatane District Council and on to the police station.
Protesters carried placards, one of which said: "He taonga te mokopuna (our children are treasures). We are not terrorists, we have been terrorised."
Several Maori sovereignty flags were carried and another sign said: "Hey you, leave our kids alone."
A group of students from Te Wharekura o Ruatoki performed a moving haka which lasted about 10 minutes before various speakers addressed the crowd, including the Maori Party's Te Ururoa Flavell.
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I wonder what was told to these young guys to fire them up so much?
Look angry, and you'll get a day off school bro! |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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This incident - and it's aftermath - is a very sad day for NZ. We will never grow (up) as a country until we stop using past grievances as excuses for today's problems.
What's the problem with authorities confiscating these weapons? Storing firearms/armory, without licences/lawful reason, isn't tolerated in other civil societies. And storing of weapons by so-called 'activists' is even less likely to be tolerated. Frankly, these people are lucky they're in good-old-PC N.Z. - in many countries they could have been shot in a raid like this.
As I said before, the Greivance Industry has to stop. It's a road to nowhere - for all Kiwis - but especially for our Maori people. |
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kiwiliz
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I feel there are people stirring things up in the background to take the attention away from the basic questions.
why were there a stockpile of guns etc at the training camp?
what were they training for?
What occured that made the police decide it better go in rather than keep monitoring?
All these protests are a smoke screen, I feel for the protesters who are being manipulated. I mean what is the connection between "hey you leave our kids alone' and the police arresting a group of people holding illegal weapons and talking about using them? |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiliz wrote: |
I feel there are people stirring things up in the background to take the attention away from the basic questions.
why were there a stockpile of guns etc at the training camp?
what were they training for?
What occured that made the police decide it better go in rather than keep monitoring?
All these protests are a smoke screen, I feel for the protesters who are being manipulated. I mean what is the connection between "hey you leave our kids alone' and the police arresting a group of people holding illegal weapons and talking about using them? |
It's sad that these protestors can't see that they're being manipulated. They're just the ill-informed meat-in-the-sandwich between a Grievance Industry and so-called 'activists' (who are, supposedly, using historical grievances to justify illegal stockpiling/ownership of weapons).
Good luck to these demonstrators - they're just exercising their democratic right to be manipulated by other people's political agendas.
All in all, another sad day for our great little country. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:00 am Post subject: |
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I have read the news articles and if you read between the lines there's a few questions to be asked.
A person is being charged for being in possesion of an assualt weapon over 3 days without a firearms licence for it.
When I was 14 and camping with the folks, an ex military soldier and a serving police officer allowed me to use a rifle, firstly a 22 and then a 303. This went on for about a week as they were teaching me to use the weapon for hunting. I didn't have a firearms licence at the time.
If that was going through the courts of NZ in regards to this issue, I would look pretty much like a criminal today. So the question today for me, is whether they are being upfront with this issue or is hype getting involved.
I know a guy in the military and if he brought an automatic weapon to a camp, even today without a licence I would want to try it out. That could make me look like a terrorist under the way the NZ media seems to be playing this issue, even if I had no interest in using it against others.
I am curious as to whether NZ will implement the upcoming security law based on this issue. For those New Zealanders, what do you think? |
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Isiod
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: Questions for oldfatfarang |
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Sorry oldfatfarang, but can you explain some of these concepts to me. Cause for me they kind of sound like substanceless slogans cut and past from a National/New Zealand first website.
"We will never grow (up) as a country" ????????
"Grievance Industry" I really don't think the employees of the Waitangi Tribunal and associated lawyers are conspiring to perpetuate this. There is the fact that enormous chunks of land were stolen, or dishonestly bought by the crown. Are you telling me you wouldn't be upset that your family lives in relative poverty, while your land is creating immense wealth for someone else? You wouldn't ask for compensation?
"no future for N.Z. in looking backwards" Again ????????
"...too much PC softness..." What is your definition of PC?
"We are, supposedly, one people" No we're not. Who told you that? Explain one people. |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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One doesn't need a .303 to go hunting anymore. The animals are thin on the ground now. A .22 will suffice. It's downright irresponsible to have weapons caches. There is no need for them, unless you want to start a war or threaten others.
A lot of police officers are Maori. A lot of parliamentarians and a lot of policy is driven for Maori rights.
Maori should protect the land. And laws the last 20 years have been made to acheive this. There's really nothing left to get up in arms about. |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| ceesgetdegrees wrote: |
| Yeah...phucking dole bludging, woman beating, alcoholic coons, wipe the phuckers out...who do those indigenous bastards think they are? NZ is changing...we have no further need for all this bloody moari *beep*...unless it's the haka aye boys "ki mite ki mite" me and the boys use to do that back home when we were PISSED, bloody good fun that. Oh and one of my mates a coon...so i'm not being racial or anything right, aye boys. Stupid ass niggas will get a war if thats what they want. |
someone else please respond to this. i'm too drunk right now, but even in the state i'm in, i can see so much here that needs addressing. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
I have read the news articles and if you read between the lines there's a few questions to be asked.
A person is being charged for being in possesion of an assualt weapon over 3 days without a firearms licence for it.
When I was 14 and camping with the folks, an ex military soldier and a serving police officer allowed me to use a rifle, firstly a 22 and then a 303. This went on for about a week as they were teaching me to use the weapon for hunting. I didn't have a firearms licence at the time.
If that was going through the courts of NZ in regards to this issue, I would look pretty much like a criminal today. So the question today for me, is whether they are being upfront with this issue or is hype getting involved.
I know a guy in the military and if he brought an automatic weapon to a camp, even today without a licence I would want to try it out. That could make me look like a terrorist under the way the NZ media seems to be playing this issue, even if I had no interest in using it against others.
I am curious as to whether NZ will implement the upcoming security law based on this issue. For those New Zealanders, what do you think? |
You don't need a licence if you are under direct supervision of some one that has a licence.
You are not allowed automatic weapons unless you have a special licence and you are only allowed to discharge them at shooting ranges same goes for pistols. We have strict gun laws for a reason.
There is a big difference between an assault rifle and a 303. There is simply no need for an individual to need an assault rifle in NZ. Plus they didn’t just have guns they also had Molotov cocktails and according to some reports grenades. To you honestly believe that the camp was a “health camp”. They were training with weapons in the bush. The police did not set race relations back they did
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| One doesn't need a .303 to go hunting anymore. The animals are thin on the ground now. A .22 will suffice. |
I have to say I disagree with this. Using a .22 to kill a deer, goat or pig is irresponsible. You are not always going to make a kill with a head shot and anything that leaves your target wounded is unacceptable.
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| We are, supposedly, one people" No we're not. Who told you that? Explain one people.” |
One people as in New Zealanders. I have ancestors that arrived in NZ in 1797. The Maori arrived around 1200-1300 ad. Does that extra 400-500 years make them more NZ than me? We have the same school system, the same rights and for many the same skin colour, how are we not one people? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| blackjack wrote: |
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Speaking of New Zealand, does the term KULCHA mean anything to anyone?
i'm all ears |
I have no idea what you are talking about. googled it and an indian bread or a western australian arts organisation.
Do share |
Well, i had a KIWI musician associate present this to me this past summer in Canada.
She claimed that it is in fact something VERY ANCIENT.
Like a philosophy or something like this which (according to her) preceded Buddhism.
Unfortunately didn't have much time to get into it with her.
My web-seach came up empty as well. Hmmmmm ...
BJ, are you aware of NZ's ANCIENT PAST? |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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By ancient past do you mean approx 80 million years ago when New Zealand separated from Gondwanaland?
Or are you referring to the myth that there were a pre-maori race of celts/Vikings that inhabited New Zealand for 1000s of years before the maori ?
There is nothing very ancient in New Zealand that is man-made |
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Isiod
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| One people as in New Zealanders. I have ancestors that arrived in NZ in 1797. The Maori arrived around 1200-1300 ad. Does that extra 400-500 years make them more NZ than me? We have the same school system, the same rights and for many the same skin colour, how are we not one people? |
I wasn't even suggesting that Maori are more Kiwi than Non-Maori. What I was saying is that I just don't like the term "one people." I think in New Zealand the term serves more to enforce a dominant European culture, than it does to explain who we are. It's not the meaning, as much as the purpose of the term that I dislike.
And really is being a New Zealander the most important identity of every one in New Zealand. It certainly is not for Tama Iti and many other Maori activists. I wonder if it is more important than identifying as Samoan, or Polynesian in parts of Auckland.
If there is such diversity, why do we have to straight-jacket it by exalting the idea of being one people. |
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xtchr
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
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"He taonga te mokopuna (our children are treasures). |
Yep, Nia Glassie, Chris and Cru Kahui, James Whakaruru, Lilybing et al sure were treasured. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Questions for oldfatfarang |
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| Isiod wrote: |
Sorry oldfatfarang, but can you explain some of these concepts to me. Cause for me they kind of sound like substanceless slogans cut and past from a National/New Zealand first website.
"We will never grow (up) as a country" ????????
Sorry, to disappoint. I've voted Labour - all my life - and so does my family. Although I don't want to get into a debate about, Who took the Labour out of the Labour Party?.
By grow up as a country - I mean just that. We are a very young country in terms of human settlement. And we've had, and will continue to have, growing pains - all countries do. I worked in the public service for many years and I've seen these 'growing pains' (read socio-economic problems caused by redistribution of wealth from capital to workers - and then back to capital - and now to international capital).
And by grow up as a country, I mean providing our young people (note use of 'our' - not Pakeha or Maori) with jobs and an economic future. Ask yourself - why is NZ a wasteland for Kiwis aged between 25-40? They're abroad - making the life for themselves that NZ can't provide for them - even if they WANT to work. Ask yourself - why are the Kiwis on this board in Korea - because they love Kimchi? No - we can't provide for our educated (and many uneducated) young - that's why we haven't grown up as a country. No country is grown-up if it can't provide it's future tax paying citizens with an economic future and then has to import immigrants to fill their tax gap).
"Grievance Industry" I really don't think the employees of the Waitangi Tribunal and associated lawyers are conspiring to perpetuate this. There is the fact that enormous chunks of land were stolen, or dishonestly bought by the crown. Are you telling me you wouldn't be upset that your family lives in relative poverty, while your land is creating immense wealth for someone else? You wouldn't ask for compensation?
This is just laughable. My family are Scottish. My grandmother could trace her ancestry back to the Stewarts (The Royal House of Stewart). If you read some Scottish history you would see what the British did to my ancestors, their land, and their culture. They were put to the sword for wearing our family tartan.
Nothing new in this. Throughout history doninant cultures have always conquered weaker ones. It's the human condition. The British were a stronger and more organised (and greedy) people. They conquered the Scots - and went on to do the same all over the globe (through conquest, divide and rule', and in NZ's case, through a mix of deception and state force).
Interestingly, my father fell in love (and married an English woman). And his 'old' Scots parents didn't speak to him for 20 plus years. So, yes, our family knows about land confiscation - and ignorant racism - and, like may other displaced Scots - our family went out into the world (NZ/Canada) and made another life for themselves. No handouts - not looking to the past - and holding grudges - just got on with it - (just like many of the Maori families I know are doing).
And I mean no handouts - my father 'cut scrub' for 2 years to save for teachers' college. Our family story isn't a lot different than most settlers in NZ's recent history - just people looking FORWARD - not to the past.
"no future for N.Z. in looking backwards" Again ????????
"...too much PC softness..." What is your definition of PC?
PC softness: Ask yourself.
Why are we discussing this issue from a race perspective? Because NZ is in a PC paradigm at the moment. We've become so politically correct that we can't even discuss an instance of an 'illegal arms depot/training camp and the Greivance Industry without demonstrators labelling the police as child harrassers and colonial abusers ('leave our children alone, Parihaka (sp?) etc') - or worse - Daves posters infering some Labor supporters are in fact NZ First supporters (ha).
"We are, supposedly, one people" No we're not. Who told you that? Explain one people. |
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I don't know about you mate, but last time I looked, NZ had one passport - for ALL its people. We're NZer's - whether we like having dog tucker activists in our midsts or not - we're still one people - and we won't be going anywhere soon as a country if we keep looking backwards and holding grudges.
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Isiod
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| xtchr wrote: |
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"He taonga te mokopuna (our children are treasures). |
Yep, Nia Glassie, Chris and Cru Kahui, James Whakaruru, Lilybing et al sure were treasured. |
Nice way to smear an entire ethnic group, with the crimes of a few. |
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