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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: Smoking to be banned in bars and restaurants! |
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... That's what I'd be writing if a new law had been passed outlawing smoking in bars, restaurants and the like.
Unfortunately, it hasn't. But would it be a bad thing if it was? Personally, I'm sick of having smoke in my face every time I have a beer. For one thing, I find it mighty tempting, having quit a year ago. For another, it irritates my sinuses and makes my clothes and lovely hair smell. And it annoys my eyes too.
When I first arrived in Korea (a year and a half ago), the guy who inspected my passport at immigration was puffing away (not at the actual booth, but in a side-room, as my presence aroused suspicion for some reason). Now, smoking is banned in public buildings. Is the next step towards civilization on the horizon?
What do you think? |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Im not a smoker and hate second hand smoke and generally thinks its savage behavior.
However, The anti smoking laws in the west are terrible. If I am a bar or restaurant owner, i dont want the state telling me I cant have smokers in my business. If smoking is so bad, just outlaw it all together and be done with it.
As for bars, let the free market decide. If customers dont want a smoky bar, i will designate my bar smoke free and reap the financial benefits. |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
Im not a smoker and hate second hand smoke and generally thinks its savage behavior.
However, The anti smoking laws in the west are terrible. If I am a bar or restaurant owner, i dont want the state telling me I cant have smokers in my business. If smoking is so bad, just outlaw it all together and be done with it.
As for bars, let the free market decide. If customers dont want a smoky bar, i will designate my bar smoke free and reap the financial benefits. |
I don't think it's as easy as letting the free market decide - that's the system that we have now. Basically, smokers get their way, non-smokers don't. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
Im not a smoker and hate second hand smoke and generally thinks its savage behavior.
However, The anti smoking laws in the west are terrible. If I am a bar or restaurant owner, i dont want the state telling me I cant have smokers in my business. If smoking is so bad, just outlaw it all together and be done with it.
As for bars, let the free market decide. If customers dont want a smoky bar, i will designate my bar smoke free and reap the financial benefits. |
I don't think it's as easy as letting the free market decide - that's the system that we have now. Basically, smokers get their way, non-smokers don't. |
You sir are wrong.What are you talking about? In The US, you pretty much cant smoke in bars or restaurants anymore. Most western countries have or will follow suit.This has angered many bar owners.
If Koreans were offended by smoky bars, an enterprising bar owner could make his bar smoke free and watch the customers pile in. |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
Im not a smoker and hate second hand smoke and generally thinks its savage behavior.
However, The anti smoking laws in the west are terrible. If I am a bar or restaurant owner, i dont want the state telling me I cant have smokers in my business. If smoking is so bad, just outlaw it all together and be done with it.
As for bars, let the free market decide. If customers dont want a smoky bar, i will designate my bar smoke free and reap the financial benefits. |
I don't think it's as easy as letting the free market decide - that's the system that we have now. Basically, smokers get their way, non-smokers don't. |
You sir are wrong.What are you talking about? In The US, you pretty much cant smoke in bars or restaurants anymore. Most western countries have or will follow suit.This has angered many bar owners.
If Koreans were offended by smoky bars, an enterprising bar owner could make his bar smoke free and watch the customers pile in. |
Yeah, same in the UK now too. But no bar owner would ever take the initiative to offer a smoke-free bar because it would be a foolish marketing ploy. Why excise a hefty proportion of your customer base?
The only way you could achieve smoke-free bars is by forcing it. Everyone hates the idea at first, but after it's done, most - even smokers - agree it's for the best. Look at the example of Ireland - everyone laughed when smoking was banned there. No-one will take any notice of a ban, they said. It'll ruin the pubs, they said. There's no way you'll stop the old farmers enjoying a tab with their Guinness. Turns out the nay-sayers were wrong on all counts. The general consensus now is that pubs are much nicer places to drink, more friendly to the casual drinker who doesn't want to come home stinking of smoke and better for children (in the case of restaurants and pubs serving food). It even encouraged conviviality amongst the strangers sent out back to the smoking area, where many a new friendship has been forged.
A ban in Korea would make bars much nicer places to drink, and would also encourage Koreans to stop smoking their stinky cigarettes, which would in turn encourage them to stop making that God-awful mucus-clearing see-how-loud-I-can-do-it expectorate-and-hawk thing that they do, that turns my stomach and raises my hackles every time I hear it. |
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Vancouver
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| darn it. You had my hopes up |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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pardon me while i light up in the non-smoking section of the pc bang  |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
Im not a smoker and hate second hand smoke and generally thinks its savage behavior.
However, The anti smoking laws in the west are terrible. If I am a bar or restaurant owner, i dont want the state telling me I cant have smokers in my business. If smoking is so bad, just outlaw it all together and be done with it.
As for bars, let the free market decide. If customers dont want a smoky bar, i will designate my bar smoke free and reap the financial benefits. |
I don't think it's as easy as letting the free market decide - that's the system that we have now. Basically, smokers get their way, non-smokers don't. |
You sir are wrong.What are you talking about? In The US, you pretty much cant smoke in bars or restaurants anymore. Most western countries have or will follow suit.This has angered many bar owners.
If Koreans were offended by smoky bars, an enterprising bar owner could make his bar smoke free and watch the customers pile in. |
You keep using the "we don't smoke here" card as something that will make a place popular. I don't buy that at all. |
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sojourner1
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Not happening as most men smoke in Korea. Probably as many as 8 out of 10 men smoke, even the suits all mostly smoke who are running things in the business world.
People don't seem to care one iota about health, morale, and quality of life; only money. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Smoking to be banned in bars and restaurants! |
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| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| ... That's what I'd be writing if a new law had been passed outlawing smoking in bars, restaurants and the like. |
That's how it is back home. Everyone deals just fine.
Here? They don't enforce the bylaws as it is. Why add another one they can duly ignore? |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| esetters21 wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
Im not a smoker and hate second hand smoke and generally thinks its savage behavior.
However, The anti smoking laws in the west are terrible. If I am a bar or restaurant owner, i dont want the state telling me I cant have smokers in my business. If smoking is so bad, just outlaw it all together and be done with it.
As for bars, let the free market decide. If customers dont want a smoky bar, i will designate my bar smoke free and reap the financial benefits. |
I don't think it's as easy as letting the free market decide - that's the system that we have now. Basically, smokers get their way, non-smokers don't. |
You sir are wrong.What are you talking about? In The US, you pretty much cant smoke in bars or restaurants anymore. Most western countries have or will follow suit.This has angered many bar owners.
If Koreans were offended by smoky bars, an enterprising bar owner could make his bar smoke free and watch the customers pile in. |
You keep using the "we don't smoke here" card as something that will make a place popular. I don't buy that at all. |
Thats not what im saying. I belive that the government has no right telling private business owners that their patrons can not engage in a legal activity on the premises. If there are legions of nonsmoking bar patrons offended by second hand smoke, then non smoking bars or non smoking sections would be viable options. Whether or not these bars are profitable is moot. |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| esetters21 wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
Im not a smoker and hate second hand smoke and generally thinks its savage behavior.
However, The anti smoking laws in the west are terrible. If I am a bar or restaurant owner, i dont want the state telling me I cant have smokers in my business. If smoking is so bad, just outlaw it all together and be done with it.
As for bars, let the free market decide. If customers dont want a smoky bar, i will designate my bar smoke free and reap the financial benefits. |
I don't think it's as easy as letting the free market decide - that's the system that we have now. Basically, smokers get their way, non-smokers don't. |
You sir are wrong.What are you talking about? In The US, you pretty much cant smoke in bars or restaurants anymore. Most western countries have or will follow suit.This has angered many bar owners.
If Koreans were offended by smoky bars, an enterprising bar owner could make his bar smoke free and watch the customers pile in. |
You keep using the "we don't smoke here" card as something that will make a place popular. I don't buy that at all. |
Thats not what im saying. I belive that the government has no right telling private business owners that their patrons can not engage in a legal activity on the premises. If there are legions of nonsmoking bar patrons offended by second hand smoke, then non smoking bars or non smoking sections would be viable options. Whether or not these bars are profitable is moot. |
On the contrary; you did say this "As for bars, let the free market decide. If customers dont want a smoky bar, i will designate my bar smoke free and reap the financial benefits."
I understand your point about government regulations, but if you choose to undermine the system and "designate" your establishment as being that way without actually adhering to the law, then your doors will be shut before you can blink.
Being from the U.S. I have heard people say the same thing. Unless you are in the right demographic population (definitely not Korea), these types of establishments will not be popular or profitable. |
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rabbitsaregood
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
Yeah, same in the UK now too. But no bar owner would ever take the initiative to offer a smoke-free bar because it would be a foolish marketing ploy. Why excise a hefty proportion of your customer base?
The only way you could achieve smoke-free bars is by forcing it. Everyone hates the idea at first, but after it's done, most - even smokers - agree it's for the best. Look at the example of Ireland - everyone laughed when smoking was banned there. No-one will take any notice of a ban, they said. It'll ruin the pubs, they said. There's no way you'll stop the old farmers enjoying a tab with their Guinness. Turns out the nay-sayers were wrong on all counts. |
not strictly true. The Irish did obey the ban, but bar takings plummeted. They are nicer places to go, I am sure, for families, health freaks and grandmas. Problem is that these kinds of people don't usually sink eight pints of the black stuff in one night. |
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The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| rabbitsaregood wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
Yeah, same in the UK now too. But no bar owner would ever take the initiative to offer a smoke-free bar because it would be a foolish marketing ploy. Why excise a hefty proportion of your customer base?
The only way you could achieve smoke-free bars is by forcing it. Everyone hates the idea at first, but after it's done, most - even smokers - agree it's for the best. Look at the example of Ireland - everyone laughed when smoking was banned there. No-one will take any notice of a ban, they said. It'll ruin the pubs, they said. There's no way you'll stop the old farmers enjoying a tab with their Guinness. Turns out the nay-sayers were wrong on all counts. |
not strictly true. The Irish did obey the ban, but bar takings plummeted. They are nicer places to go, I am sure, for families, health freaks and grandmas. Problem is that these kinds of people don't usually sink eight pints of the black stuff in one night. |
I don't think takings plummeted exactly, but cigarette sales did. Which is good. And anyway, if the Irish are drinking and smoking less, then it's for their own good. They will become less doughy and ghost-coloured as a result. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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I know resturants in the US had non-smoking sections when you could smoke in them. I very much doubt Korean resturants would do that. I tend to agree that you have to force the issue as resturants and bars here won't offer that option.
I also agree that since 85-90% of men smoke (that's a guess, but I'd be interested in seeing the actual number for both males and females) there wouldn't be a chance in hell Koreans would go for that. As a country, Korea has a hard enough time enforcing exsisting laws (traffic laws would be a perfect example), therefore as someone said previously why add another law that won't be enforced. |
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