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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: Contract is ending... renewing questions... |
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My contract is ending sometime this December. I am leaning somewhat to extending at the same place for another year since public schools and universities do not hire until March, and I don't want to be done with a job in March and return to North America at the wrong time.
Anyway, am I entitled under Korean law to some kind of paid week off or anything? Frankly, I will have had only 4 paid vacations used this whole year by December. My contract actually did not give 10 paid holidays.
In general, the company gave 10 unpaid. I did in the end get a few paid ones. I would like to have maybe a week off or some days at the end of my contract rather than just go back into it since I am not going home and getting a ticket home until the end of next year. I await the sagacious advice of some veterans. |
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garykasparov
Joined: 27 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Ask for 15 days paid annual leave because you're entitled to it under Korea labor law provided you're working consecutive service years.
2,100,000 > 2,325,000
2,200,000 > 2,425,000
2,300,000 > 2,525,000
Last edited by garykasparov on Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:11 am; edited 4 times in total |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Contract is ending... renewing questions... |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
My contract is ending sometime this December. I am leaning somewhat to extending at the same place for another year since public schools and universities do not hire until March, and I don't want to be done with a job in March and return to North America at the wrong time.
Anyway, am I entitled under Korean law to some kind of paid week off or anything? Frankly, I will have had only 4 paid vacations used this whole year by December. My contract actually did not give 10 paid holidays.
In general, the company gave 10 unpaid. I did in the end get a few paid ones. I would like to have maybe a week off or some days at the end of my contract rather than just go back into it since I am not going home and getting a ticket home until the end of next year. I await the sagacious advice of some veterans. |
Holidays between contracts, increases in salary, re-signing bonus, etc. are all a matter of your negotiating skills.
The easiest way to accomplish it is ...
Boss, my contract is done soon. I would like to be paid out and have my ticket.
I am also lookin at a new job in Korea starting on the xth of Dec. Do you know anyone who needs an experienced teacher?
I would be looking for a salary of xxxx million per month plus ____, plus ____, plus _____..... you get the pic. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| garykasparov wrote: |
| Ask for 15 days paid annual leave because you're entitled to it under Korea labor law provided you're working consecutive service years. |
Are you sure that's Korean law, because there are contracts where they can give 10 unpaid holidays then that's what you are supposed to get.
If I am wrong in that regard, let me know. One of my friends said in Korea they don't have to give you paid vacation days except the holidays. I am not sure. Anyway, with this contract I get half paid and upaid. Next year, if I sign I will get the normal 10 days paid. I am thinking before signing that some of those unpaid that I haven't even used by paid in exchange for me signing, because I do need to recuperate, and he doesn't need burned out employee. What do you think about that? I do really like my job, but I want some recuperating this winter before diving back into the job. I like what Ttompaz said.
As far as the 15 days, that might be officially on the books, but ignored.
I know 10 days were mentioned in some capacity on the Korean Labor Standards Act, but in many cases unenforced by the government unless you work for a public institution.
Thanks for your feedback.... |
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garykasparov
Joined: 27 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Are you sure that's Korean law, because there are contracts where they can give 10 unpaid holidays then that's what you are supposed to get. |
Labor law trumps a provision in a contract that doesn't conform with labor laws/provisions in the Korean Labor Standards Act. There is no such thing as "unpaid annual leave." It doesn't exist on the books (Korean Labor Standards Act) or other laws.
| Quote: |
| If I am wrong in that regard, let me know. One of my friends said in Korea they don't have to give you paid vacation days except the holidays. I am not sure. Anyway, with this contract I get half paid and upaid. |
The provision of your contract didn't conform with labor laws and would be governed by the said/appropriate provision in the Korean Labor Standards Act. Employers have been pulling this scam for years. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| garykasparov wrote: |
| Ask for 15 days paid annual leave because you're entitled to it under Korea labor law provided you're working consecutive service years. |
Are you sure that's Korean law, because there are contracts where they can give 10 unpaid holidays then that's what you are supposed to get.
If I am wrong in that regard, let me know. One of my friends said in Korea they don't have to give you paid vacation days except the holidays. I am not sure. Anyway, with this contract I get half paid and upaid. Next year, if I sign I will get the normal 10 days paid. I am thinking before signing that some of those unpaid that I haven't even used by paid in exchange for me signing, because I do need to recuperate, and he doesn't need burned out employee. What do you think about that? I do really like my job, but I want some recuperating this winter before diving back into the job. I like what Ttompaz said.
As far as the 15 days, that might be officially on the books, but ignored.
I know 10 days were mentioned in some capacity on the Korean Labor Standards Act, but in many cases unenforced by the government unless you work for a public institution.
Thanks for your feedback.... |
Article 59 (Annual Paid Leave)
(1) An employer shall grant 10 days� leaves with pay to workers who have offered work without an absence throughout a year and 8 days� leaves with pay to those who have registered more than 90 percent of attendance during one year.
(1) An employer shall grant 15 days� paid leave to worker who has registered more than 80 percent of attendance during one year. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003>
(2) An employer shall offer a worker who is employed more than two consecutive years one day�s paid leave for each year of consecutive employment years, in forth in paragraph (1). However, if the total number of leaves exceeds twenty days, normal wages may be paid for the number of days in excess of twenty days, in place of paid leaves.
(2) An employer shall grant one day�s paid leave per month to a worker the number of whose consecutive service years is less than one year, if the worker has offered work without an absence throughout a month. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003>
(3) An employer shall grant the leave with pay in accordance with paragraphs (1) and (2) when requested by a worker, and shall pay normal wages or average wages for the leave period as provided for in the rules of employment or other provisions; however, the period concerned may be altered, if it would be a serious impediment to the operation of the business to grant a leave(s) with pay at a time when a worker requests.
(3) In case an employer grants a worker paid leave for the first one year of his/her service, the number of leave days shall be 15 including the leave prescribed in Paragraph (2), and if the worker has already used the leave prescribed in Paragraph (2), the number of used leave days shall be deducted from the 15 days of leave. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003>
(4) The period of temporary interruption of work resulting from an occupational injury or disease, or the period of temporary interruption of work before and after childbirth for female workers in accordance with Article 72, shall be regarded as equivalent to the performance of work without interruption in application of the provisions of paragraph (1).
(4) After the first year of service, an employer shall grant one day�s paid leave for each two years of consecutive service in addition to the leave prescribed in Paragraph (1) to a worker who has worked consecutively for 3 years or more. In this case, the total number of leave days including the additional leave shall not exceed 25. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003>
(5) The paid leave referred to in paragraphs (1) and (2) shall be forfeited unless it is consumed within one year. However, this shall not apply if a worker has been prevented from using annual paid leaves due to the causes attributable to an employer.
(5) An employer shall grant paid leave pursuant to Paragraphs (1) through (4) upon request of a worker, and shall pay ordinary wages or average wages during the period of leave in accordance with employment rules or other regulations : Provided that the period concerned may be altered, in case it might cause a serious impediment to the operation of the business to grant paid leave at a time when the worker requests. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003>
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
Thanks for your feedback.... |
Article 59 (Annual Paid Leave)
(1) An employer shall grant 10 days� leaves with pay to workers who have offered work without an absence throughout a year and 8 days� leaves with pay to those who have registered more than 90 percent of attendance during one year.
(1) An employer shall grant 15 days� paid leave to worker who has registered more than 80 percent of attendance during one year. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003>
[Now, isn't customary for hagwons to give 10 paid days. I am not sure I understand what entitle you to 15 days versus 10 days. I want at least my 10 days for this year or close to it before I sign on. I am supposed to get 10 next year, but I want some more days to rest between contracts...... Anyway, all these contracts that get submitted to labour, why aren't they ever randomly looked at? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Thanks for your feedback.... |
Article 59 (Annual Paid Leave)
(1) An employer shall grant 10 days� leaves with pay to workers who have offered work without an absence throughout a year and 8 days� leaves with pay to those who have registered more than 90 percent of attendance during one year.
(1) An employer shall grant 15 days� paid leave to worker who has registered more than 80 percent of attendance during one year. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003>
[Now, isn't customary for hagwons to give 10 paid days. I am not sure I understand what entitle you to 15 days versus 10 days. I want at least my 10 days for this year or close to it before I sign on. I am supposed to get 10 next year, but I want some more days to rest between contracts...... Anyway, all these contracts that get submitted to labour, why aren't they ever randomly looked at? |
They are not submitted to labor.... a copy goes to immigration only to confirm that you have an employer and the dates of employment as part of the visa issuance process.
Just because hakwons still only give 10 days doesn't mean it is legal.
Same ol crap. Newbies don't know so they accept what they get. |
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MarionG
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the teachers in my area (that I know) go home to US, Britain, NZ etc for about 1 month between contracts. This is not something that is "granted" by their schools, it's something they "tell" the school they are going to do. If the school wants you back, they'll say "fine."
Some directors will try and tell you that you can't do that. Be polite, and simply say, "but I am going to do it, but I'd be happy to help you look for another teacher if you don't want me to come back."
Despite how shoddily some directors treat native teachers, the native teacher usually (not always) has a good deal more clout than they realize. It's expensive for a school to recruit another teacher. Also, you're the waygook they know; another teacher is the waygook they DON'T know, and might be a difficult one.
As far as vacation goes, although someone already said this: If a provision of your contract is in conflict with Korean law in that it does not provide you a right that Korean labor law grants you, that provision is null and void. For example, if your contract says that you are to receive 5 days paid vacation, but Korean labor law says 10, your'e entitled to 10. However, if the contract says 20 days, and Korean Labor Law says 10, you're entitled to 20.
For your second year at the same employer, Korean law says you are entitled to 15 days paid leave. This does not count Korean holidays (red days) and you get those also. |
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htrain
Joined: 24 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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I know you guys on here know a heck of a lot more than I do on this.
I do want to ask though... won't most hagwon directors just tell you to piss up a rope? My coworker said he wanted a month off in between contracts and the director said "Ok well I'm afraid we can't work together in the future then."
While I also understand the point being made about how you are the waygook they know, they trust, etc... isn't it cheaper to just get some newb for 2.0 instead of paying you 2.5 to renew? It ends up being a good $6000 in the end. I guess it's kind of an insurance policy for them?
I'm not positive, but I think if he had asked the boss for 15 days vacation as stipulated by labor law, it would have gone nowhere. But then again, my boss is a reasonable lady, I just think the "standard" most of these places operate under has eroded real law. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Thanks for your feedback.... |
Article 59 (Annual Paid Leave)
(1) An employer shall grant 10 days� leaves with pay to workers who have offered work without an absence throughout a year and 8 days� leaves with pay to those who have registered more than 90 percent of attendance during one year.
(1) An employer shall grant 15 days� paid leave to worker who has registered more than 80 percent of attendance during one year. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003>
[Now, isn't customary for hagwons to give 10 paid days. I am not sure I understand what entitle you to 15 days versus 10 days. I want at least my 10 days for this year or close to it before I sign on. I am supposed to get 10 next year, but I want some more days to rest between contracts...... Anyway, all these contracts that get submitted to labour, why aren't they ever randomly looked at? |
They are not submitted to labor.... a copy goes to immigration only to confirm that you have an employer and the dates of employment as part of the visa issuance process.
Just because hakwons still only give 10 days doesn't mean it is legal.
Same ol crap. Newbies don't know so they accept what they get. |
I have been here a while and I know the standard is 10 days and even some employers don't even give those 10 days. So what does this law actually mean? In my last job, the labour fellow didn't care that I basically didn't get my holidays nor compensation for them. I filed when she went bankrupt. I have taken some of my holidays, but my contract didn't say I could get 10 paid holidays. I had to take the job, there were no public school jobs, my previous employer wouldn't release me, immigration had no one who could speak English. I suppose I could ask my employer
for 5 days off after my contract ends and the 10 days for next year.
I know they would balk at the idea of 15 days on top of that.
It will be good if they give me the 5 paid remaining days I am technically owed for this year. Obviously, if I signed on with someone else, I would still only get 10 days off with a new place. I like my place of work, but
I want to get 5 days off before working again.... Otherwise, I might just jump ship. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| htrain wrote: |
I know you guys on here know a heck of a lot more than I do on this.
I do want to ask though... won't most hagwon directors just tell you to piss up a rope? My coworker said he wanted a month off in between contracts and the director said "Ok well I'm afraid we can't work together in the future then."
The thing is though...there's no shortage of jobs. You can leave one place and get a job inside of a week at another place with no problems at all (assuming of course that you didn't just do a runner or something along those lines...though I have heard of people doing runners and also managing to get new jobs as well).
He should have said "Oh well then I guess we can't. Goodbye."
While I also understand the point being made about how you are the waygook they know, they trust, etc... isn't it cheaper to just get some newb for 2.0 instead of paying you 2.5 to renew? It ends up being a good $6000 in the end. I guess it's kind of an insurance policy for them?
Well they have to pay the new airfare plus the recruiter fee....also this guy could be absolutely hopeless and then they have to go through the same thing AGAIN. Could end up being pricy. At most hakwons, if the kids like you and want you to stay, the director will acceed to almost all reasonable demands. After all if you end up working for the competition, you could potentially take some students from his place.
I'm not positive, but I think if he had asked the boss for 15 days vacation as stipulated by labor law, it would have gone nowhere. But then again, my boss is a reasonable lady, I just think the "standard" most of these places operate under has eroded real law.
That's why getting this news out is good. If more people start demanding 15 days...hakwons are going to have to up their standards. Public schools are already putting the squeeze on them by giving more than that (14 WORKING days) plus a 2 week holiday at the end of the contract or just before.
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| That's why getting this news out is good. If more people start demanding 15 days...hakwons are going to have to up their standards. Public schools are already putting the squeeze on them by giving more than that (14 WORKING days) plus a 2 week holiday at the end of the contract or just before. |
SMOE has upped the ante even more... 21 working days + 2 weeks for home leave on renewal. (slightly over 6 calendar weeks) as standard + those extra days that seem to come along ..... like the school's birthday, teacher's day, etc.
Play hardball with your hakwon. They need you far more than you need them. If they can't ante up, time to move to one that will. They are out there if you are here and have experience in the classroom.
As a specific example, my old hakwon in Yongtong called me up last month and offered to match the new SMOE offer (which is actually a better deal than my current GEPIK contract) if I returned. I thought more than twice about it before I declined the offer.
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| The_Conservative wrote: |
| That's why getting this news out is good. If more people start demanding 15 days...hakwons are going to have to up their standards. Public schools are already putting the squeeze on them by giving more than that (14 WORKING days) plus a 2 week holiday at the end of the contract or just before. |
SMOE has upped the ante even more... 21 working days + 2 weeks for home leave on renewal. (slightly over 6 calendar weeks) as standard + those extra days that seem to come along ..... like the school's birthday, teacher's day, etc.
Play hardball with your hakwon. They need you far more than you need them. If they can't ante up, time to move to one that will. They are out there if you are here and have experience in the classroom.
We are talking about Koreans, you know who in too many cases will risk losing 100 bucks to save 5. I have seen that way too many times.
A girl with tons of experience walked in asking for a certain salary, our boss said no, and he ended up with a teacher that students complained about. She even spoke Korean, didn't need a flight back home. Now, I have received a raise, get paid an all right wage, work less than when I first started, so I have been negotiating even in mid-contract. I haven't been a patsy, so to speak. My previous co-workers had a much worse situation since I negotiated and kind of played Korean politics. I just want the 5 remaining unpaid to be turned into paid and the 10 paid holidays for next year honoured. I will be all right with that. My job situation is good overall... I wish more hagwons gave the 15 days, it would be easier to negotiate. In the meantime, I am looking up jobs.
As a specific example, my old hakwon in Yongtong called me up last month and offered to match the new SMOE offer (which is actually a better deal than my current GEPIK contract) if I returned. I thought more than twice about it before I declined the offer.
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MarionG
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to point out, again, that hogwons don't "give," or "not give" vacation in most cases - the LAW does! There are few hogwons that would give ANY vacation if they didn't have to!
Tell your director what you expect. Do it calmly, don't lose your cool, don't act scared. Ask for something more than you will be happy to settle for...i.e. 3 weeks between contracts, 15 days vacation (actually, at the same hogwon you're entitled to 15) and a raise of 300,000 won a month.
If the response is get out of dodge, you have to be prepared to go elsewhere. The key to this kind of negotiation, other than remaining calm and reasonable, is to really mean it... if they aren't ready to negotiate at all, then they aren't the right employer for you.
Some directors will say don't let the door hit you on the way out, but most will negotiate. |
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